New Lunar Republic? Solar Empire?

[SteelEagle]

Steel, just to note... Nightmare moon was the result of darkness in Luna's heart, which the Elements of Harmony apparently destroyed. Luna confirmed this in Luna Eclipsed as I recall. Given that she is now totally pure hearted (at least apparently), I don't see how another incident like that would be possible.

Considering she was able to wield the elements prior to her becoming Nightmare Moon, would you have considered it likely that she could have succumbed to such evil anyway? No. Yet it happened. It isn't likely that it would happen again. It wasn't likely the first time either.

Her attitude, which you saw in Luna Eclipsed was based off of memories of how things were 1000 years ago. She has room for character development. And honestly, how would you feel if a celebration was made IN FEAR of you? If the roles would had been switched, Celestia would have likely reacted the same way or at least in a similar way. Celestia's advantage is that she had the 1000 years to flow with the customs and understand the traditions, and grow with the times. Something, which she cannot be faulted for. She didn't understand the appeal of Nightmare Night, which is why by the end of the episode, after she understood, her demeanor changed completely. It is unfair to affix a previous character flaw that was worked out in episode to future affairs.

Consider her end reaction to a silly holiday. Now imagine that she has to deal with something of much greater import. We all agree she was deprived of a thousand years that have left her behind the times. Sad for her. Still means she is less of an effective ruler or potential figurehead in a government.

She is beginning to understand how this new world works. This is personal conjecture, but I have a feeling that Celestia SENT Luna to Ponyville, knowing that Twilight would seek to help her understand the new world which she was recently thrown into. Imagine what would have happened if she had stayed in Canterlot for that celebration, with Celestia away and nopony to back Luna up...? Probably would have been a disaster. (or any other town, Ponyville had the advantage of having the Mane6 there who knew first hand that Luna had been purified by the EoH)

1- Yep, she is! Which is great. Maybe after a thousand years she'll be half as decent as Celestia?

2- I actually have always thought the same regarding Celestia sending Luna to Ponyville, though I don't think there was so much as even a minor possibility of disaster.

Now... on to the main thing... This whole debate is an exercise in ridiculousness. Why? Because really it isn't about governmental changes, or reasons why one princess is better at ruling than the other. It was originally (and in my opinion still is) a popularity contest. This is why Luna is winning.

If the topic was, "Luna or Celestia?" then I'd agree with you. Not only would that be a super boring topic, but the question asked regards two different factions, either in a civil war or some other dynastic conflict. Much more interesting!

As of right now, they are both ruling EQUALLY as it was originally intended.

Let's define equally. We see Celestia giving orders and generally leading. We see Luna in joseco pics playing the 360 and not having an idea about the Changeling invasion. Plus, Celestia seems to be able to say, "Hey, yeah, you're staying here Luna," and all Luna can do is look constipated. That may just be the right of a big sister but I think we can agree that in Equestria, one Princess wields more practical power than the other.XD

The part in the middle we agreed on completely.

[starswirlthebearded]

Being able to wield the elements have no bearing on the purity of heart. It just means they have a connection to the elements and are harmonious with the other wielders. They ARE the Elements of HARMONY after all. Not the elements of purity. She, at the time of wielding against Discord, was in a harmonious relationship with her sister. When that ceased, the connection was broken, and Celestia eventually became completely unable to wield the elements (Otherwise, why, if she foresaw Nightmare Moon's return, did she not gather the elements herself and wield them against her sister once again).

And I don't know about you, but if you don't understand something and you are told there is a celebration dedicated to completely fallacious things about you, based solely on lore to make you seem scarier (I mean there was never anything about Nightmare Moon that suggests she was cannibalistic in what we heard in the first episode, just that she wanted everlasting night), and when you have arrived after redeeming yourself, you find that the reaction is exactly the same, including that of the adult mares whom should know better including the Mayor... I think you'd take it rather personally too. But that is just the way I see it. She did try to make friends and be nice, but she didn't know how because of her lack of understanding of modern customs. And so, they continued to fear her, instead of respect her, as she had expected. After figuring out how to function in modern times, her demeanor and entire reaction changed. Hence she was playing and enjoying herself with the citizens of Ponyville.

Celestia rules during the day... You know when things tend to happen. Luna rules the night, when the subjects are asleep. And it is entirely possible that due to this during big decisions if possible Luna is offered into the fold and Celestia passes and announces final decision reached. Why does Celestia do this? Because she rules during the day. Why would the ruler of night pass decision on a daytime issue? It makes no sense. If you saw the first 8 minutes of the 3rd season, this conjecture seems to be at least partially correct. To avoid spoiling I'll stop there.

And Solar Empire and NLR are fanon creations. Neither exist. There is no Solar Empire and there is no NLR. They were fan created by fans of Celestia and Luna respectively. Supporters of each tend to be fans of the leader of the faction, despite that both have equal rule. Hence it is a popularity contest rather than a legitimate sociopolitical debate. If you come into this topic with only knowledge of the series, little to none of it will make any sense. Why? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST IN CANON. It is always Equestria. End of story. The two rule together in balance (hence the Equestrian flag)

[MidnightBlackhorn]

Oh wow

EDIT: starswirl ninja'd me

[starswirlthebearded]

Oh wow

If that is in reference to me.

Edit... apparently not!

[EquestrianScholar]

She was the supreme ruler of her country, now again sharing that power with her sister, and cares deeply about her land and her subjects. As High Queen and Mare Wearing the Queenly Mask type figure (tv tropes) she is beautiful yet also clever, strong-willed and charismatic. She leads her people through her cunning and force of her personality, adhering to protocol and making it work for her despite how frustrating it can be at times. She has even gone out of her way to finding ways around protocol. Her sense of mischief being one of the way she does so. She has her student send her friendship reports at least in part because she wishes to see how normal ponies interact with each other, and also holds so close to her the relaionship she has with her student.

She must always present herself perfectly, speak perfectly, be perfectly calm, never falter, never show "weakness". She must think of and counter every possible threat to her kingdom. In fact, she cannot act like like other ponies nor have normal relationships as other ponies insist on treating her differently. There are times she just wishes to relax and have friendly conversations and interactions, to have a little fun. She isn't 'perfect' by choice but because that is what everypony expects of her and in a 1000 years she has perfected the 'act' of being perfect and training herself to be nearly as great as ponies thing she is.

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So with that, with just a bit of thought, one can actually give Celestia a lot of depth and perhaps even make her more interesting the Luna. You just need to take what is canon and get creative with it. Fans have done so in the past with background ponies so it 'should' be easy for Celestia. To be honest I would love to read a fanfiction with the above, where this 'mask' is forced to be taken off, where her act at being 'perfect' is broken causing her sister, her student, and even perhaps her subjects to see that she really isn't so different then they are. That she has fears, uncertainties... that she can suffer from selfish desires and wants. That through having this mask taken off she comes to realize she doesn't have to pretend anymore, and those around her accept her despite not being perfect.

[TotalEcplise]

She was the supreme ruler of her country, now again sharing that power with her sister, and cares deeply about her land and her subjects. As High Queen and Mare Wearing the Queenly Mask type figure (tv tropes) she is beautiful yet also clever, strong-willed and charismatic. She leads her people through her cunning and force of her personality, adhering to protocol and making it work for her despite how frustrating it can be at times. She has even gone out of her way to finding ways around protocol. Her sense of mischief being one of the way she does so. She has her student send her friendship reports at least in part because she wishes to see how normal ponies interact with each other, and also holds so close to her the relaionship she has with her student.

She must always present herself perfectly, speak perfectly, be perfectly calm, never falter, never show "weakness". She must think of and counter every possible threat to her kingdom. In fact, she cannot act like like other ponies nor have normal relationships as other ponies insist on treating her differently. There are times she just wishes to relax and have friendly conversations and interactions, to have a little fun. She isn't 'perfect' by choice but because that is what everypony expects of her and in a 1000 years she has perfected the 'act' of being perfect and training herself to be nearly as great as ponies thing she is.

----------------------------------------

So with that, with just a bit of thought, one can actually give Celestia a lot of depth and perhaps even make her more interesting the Luna. You just need to take what is canon and get creative with it. Fans have done so in the past with background ponies so it 'should' be easy for Celestia. To be honest I would love to read a fanfiction with the above, where this 'mask' is forced to be taken off, where her act at being 'perfect' is broken causing her sister, her student, and even perhaps her subjects to see that she really isn't so different then they are. That she has fears, uncertainties... that she can suffer from selfish desires and wants. That through having this mask taken off she comes to realize she doesn't have to pretend anymore, and those around her accept her despite not being perfect.

Oh so you mean Eternal. Albeit it mostly Twilight and Celestia, the main thing you wanted to see happened, but a leader can't show that side of themselves to the public for a reason. They have to be above us or they won't garner enough respect. Do you think Obama would've gotten re elected if pictures of him wasted at a strip club were on his facebook?

[EquestrianScholar]

Oh so you mean Eternal. Albeit it mostly Twilight and Celestia, the main thing you wanted to see happened, but a leader can't show that side of themselves to the public for a reason. They have to be above us or they won't garner enough respect. Do you think Obama would've gotten re elected if pictures of him wasted at a strip club were on his facebook?

Yes, true enough but the point is some fans complain she isn't interesting enough for them, that she is too perfect when in truth you can easily make her interesting without her being a tyrant or a troll or bad/evil in any way. That 'somehow' Equestria would be better if Celestia stepped down, allow her sister to take over, or make Equestria a democracy. She is supposed to be different, more 'perfect' even, yet perhaps there is good reason for such as you have said yourself.

She does what she does not so much because she likes doing it much it is expected of her. She has ruled Equestria better then any president has ruled the USA, (especially Obama, whose answer to a problem is to throw money at it and hope it goes away... sighs, he shouldn't have gotten a second term) and perhaps your right the mask shouldn't come off

[TotalEcplise]

Yes, true enough but the point is some fans complain she isn't interesting enough for them, that she is too perfect when in truth you can easily make her interesting without her being a tyrant or a troll or bad/evil in any way. That 'somehow' Equestria would be better if Celestia stepped down, allow her sister to take over, or make Equestria a democracy. She is supposed to be different, more 'perfect' even, yet perhaps there is good reason for such as you have said yourself.

She does what she does not so much because she likes doing it much it is expected of her. She has ruled Equestria better then any president has ruled the USA, (especially Obama, whose answer to a problem is to throw money at it and hope it goes away... sighs, he shouldn't have gotten a second term) and perhaps your right the mask shouldn't come off

Well seeing as she isnt the main character, and is the ruler of the nation. I feel that their concerns are misplaced. Indeed, Celestia has been shown to be an emotional being, which is a flaw itself.

Plenty of fan work explores the unmasked side of Celestia without falling into molestia, trollestia, or tyrant territory. I don't really believe she's any of those things, but they are still funny none the less. (Best Troller in ALL of Equestria and Princess Molestia, being some of the funniest things I've ever read)

[starswirlthebearded]

Well seeing as she isnt the main character, and is the ruler of the nation. I feel that their concerns are misplaced. Indeed, Celestia has been shown to be an emotional being, which is a flaw itself.

Plenty of fan work explores the unmasked side of Celestia without falling into molestia, trollestia, or tyrant territory. I don't really believe she's any of those things, but they are still funny none the less. (Best Troller in ALL of Equestria and Princess Molestia, being some of the funniest things I've ever read)

But we know she is a troll! Don't you remember the party at the Cakes? She totally trolled Mr and Mrs Cake!

[EquestrianScholar]

Well seeing as she isnt the main character, and is the ruler of the nation. I feel that their concerns are misplaced. Indeed, Celestia has been shown to be an emotional being, which is a flaw itself.

Plenty of fan work explores the unmasked side of Celestia without falling into molestia, trollestia, or tyrant territory. I don't really believe she's any of those things, but they are still funny none the less. (Best Troller in ALL of Equestria and Princess Molestia, being some of the funniest things I've ever read)

For me one of the funniest and the funnest fanfictions I have read was a Solar Empire and New Lunar Republic fanfiction where the sisters had a water balloon fight.

[EquestrianScholar]

But we know she is a troll! Don't you remember the party at the Cakes? She totally trolled Mr and Mrs Cake!

-Smiles- You do realize what a troll is right? There is a big difference between simply having a sense of humor and liking to play jokes from time to time... and being a troll that incites anger and conflict. Ones that love having a good laugh at others expense and don't care about others feelings. They just want to have a good laugh and fun.

Discord is a troll, Celestia is not.

[TotalEcplise]

But we know she is a troll! Don't you remember the party at the Cakes? She totally trolled Mr and Mrs Cake!

And the gala tickets

And the phoenix

She may be a little bit of a prankster, but its not as bad as it was in the Best Troller fic.

-Smiles- You do realize what a troll is right? There is a big difference between simply having a sense of humor and liking to play jokes from time to time... and being a troll that incites anger and conflict. Ones that love having a good laugh at others expense and don't care about others feelings. They just want to have a good laugh and fun.

Discord is a troll, Celestia is not.

Honestly I don't know if Discord is a troll of not, yes he does like to get a reaction, but mostly he does everything for his own amusement. Getting reactions is just icing on the cake, I think he'd still do what he does and have fun with it if everypony was stoic. (based on the fact that he did change most of the ponys in ponyville's minds to be a part of his antics not react to them). as far as I can tell he only trolls people who try to stop him.

[MidnightBlackhorn]

On a different note, Luna for best pony

[Linkhopper]

On a different note, Luna for best pony

on a different same note, solar empire!

[EquestrianScholar]

On that note I pick the Guardians of Harmony, the group that refuses to see Equestria divided and know that the land can only stand if there is Harmony and Love... all the more shown by the season 3 pilot.

[Linkhopper]

On that note I pick the Guardians of Harmony, the group that refuses to see Equestria divided and know that the land can only stand if there is Harmony and Love... all the more shown by the season 3 pilot.

Im just trying to keep this thread on rails man ;_;

[EquestrianScholar]

Im just trying to keep this thread on rails man ;_;

Yes and I technically voted for the Solar Empire yet in truth both are actually wrong. Also it was on the rails when we were discussing Celestia and Luna... as what are the Solar Empire and Lunar Republic but the fans creating a civil war in their support of the favorite princess?

[MidnightBlackhorn]

Wut

I still like tacos

[Linkhopper]

Wut

I still like tacos

\

GET BACK ON TOPIC!

[EquestrianScholar]

GET BACK ON TOPIC!

Agreed

[EquestrianScholar]

I bring this thread back from its slumber as I seek its continuation!!

[gamerkane]

Yes and I technically voted for the Solar Empire yet in truth both are actually wrong. Also it was on the rails when we were discussing Celestia and Luna... as what are the Solar Empire and Lunar Republic but the fans creating a civil war in their support of the favorite princess?

Well just because neither side is actually right, doesn't mean that there will be a right side. Even in Equestria, the lesser of two evils must be taken. Now that being said, I think both would make great leaders, but it different ways. I feel that Luna would be more relaxed than Celestia on some of her policies, but also harder on the evils (for some odd reason I feel she would have some sort of knee jerk "Get rid of it now and forever" mentality.) That being said, I do like Luna more.

[frostfauna]

This thread needs updating. There are more social parties vying for dominance now. The Crystal Empire, The Changeling Monarchy (weakened, but still a threat, in my opinion), and now Princess Twilight's Regime (that's the only name I can come up with right now) are also possibilities. For now, I'm going with the Lunar Republic. At least until this thread is revised, or a new one is made.

[EquestrianScholar]

This thread needs updating. There are more social parties vying for dominance now. The Crystal Empire, The Changeling Monarchy (weakened, but still a threat, in my opinion), and now Princess Twilight's Regime (that's the only name I can come up with right now) are also possibilities. For now, I'm going with the Lunar Republic. At least until this thread is revised, or a new one is made.

Despite the name, the Crystal Empire is a part of Equestria and more like a city it would seem. the Changlings are a group few but fans would follow and Twilight is loyal to Celestia.

[EquestrianScholar]

Well just because neither side is actually right, doesn't mean that there will be a right side. Even in Equestria, the lesser of two evils must be taken. Now that being said, I think both would make great leaders, but it different ways. I feel that Luna would be more relaxed than Celestia on some of her policies, but also harder on the evils (for some odd reason I feel she would have some sort of knee jerk "Get rid of it now and forever" mentality.) That being said, I do like Luna more.

Myself I would rather go with the that has proven she is an intellegant and wise leader with over 1000 years of service to her subjects. I mean if you have a leader that citizens follow loyalty and with respect, one wouldn't just toss this leader aside for one with much less experiance and that has shown that has make choices that would have destroyed Equestria.

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I apologize for the double post, I am used to my posts combining together if I make two (MLP Forums).