Alicorns and How Other Ponies View Them

[flutterscotch]

Everyone knows that Piers Anthony is just a smart aleck pun-ster and is not to be trusted with serious discussions of mythology.

[HopeFox]

The storybook opening of the pilot talks about the older sister using her "unicorn powers" to raise the sun, and then says that the "younger unicorn" refused to lower the moon. That suggests to me that the Princesses are seen as "unicorns who are also pegasi and earth ponies", rather than being seen as a truly equal mix of all three tribes. Princess Celestia's primary role, other than being the head of the government, is in using her unicorn magic to control the sun. The rest of the Canterlot nobility, including her "nephew" Prince Glueblood, are all unicorns. The pegasi and earth ponies of Equestria know that she is "one of them" in a certain sense, but they still think of her as primarily a unicorn. I've heard the term "princess pony" used in fandom and possibly from official sources, and I think that's the more likely way for ponies to think of them, than as "alicorns", which is still a bit too mundane a term for such lofty and rare creatures.

I think it is very important to remember that the Princesses embody all three tribes, though. My personal headcanon is that Celestia is actually more pegasus than unicorn, while Luna is more unicorn than pegasus. This is based on the royal pegasus guards being mostly white like Celestia, while the royal unicorn guards are mostly dark like Luna. Also, the moon has always been strongly associated with magic. I also think that Celestia's earth pony magic is more closely connected to plants, since plants need the sun to grow, while Luna's earth pony magic is more connected to animals - she does like her bats, after all. Cadence hasn't shown herself to be very good at magic (other than her special talent spells), and she doesn't fly much - maybe she's more earth pony than the others.

[Kendrick]

Ginger Mint: Thanks for linking that article!

It's interesting having seen this discussion unfold.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

The storybook opening of the pilot talks about the older sister using her "unicorn powers" to raise the sun, and then says that the "younger unicorn" refused to lower the moon. That suggests to me that the Princesses are seen as "unicorns who are also pegasi and earth ponies", rather than being seen as a truly equal mix of all three tribes.

*Ahem*, the actual quote is:

Once upon a time, in the magical land of Equestria, there were two regal sisters who ruled together, and created harmony for all the land. To do this, the eldest used her unicorn powers to raise the sun at dawn; the younger brought out the moon to begin the night. Thus, the two sisters maintained balance for the kingdom and their subjects, all the different types of ponies.

[Kirby Krackle]

I always assumed all ponies hear "Alicorn" in the same way people in Metropolis hear "Superman".

[Solaria]

The storybook opening of the pilot talks about the older sister using her "unicorn powers" to raise the sun, and then says that the "younger unicorn" refused to lower the moon. That suggests to me that the Princesses are seen as "unicorns who are also pegasi and earth ponies", rather than being seen as a truly equal mix of all three tribes. Princess Celestia's primary role, other than being the head of the government, is in using her unicorn magic to control the sun. The rest of the Canterlot nobility, including her "nephew" Prince Glueblood, are all unicorns. The pegasi and earth ponies of Equestria know that she is "one of them" in a certain sense, but they still think of her as primarily a unicorn. I've heard the term "princess pony" used in fandom and possibly from official sources, and I think that's the more likely way for ponies to think of them, than as "alicorns", which is still a bit too mundane a term for such lofty and rare creatures.

I think it is very important to remember that the Princesses embody all three tribes, though. My personal headcanon is that Celestia is actually more pegasus than unicorn, while Luna is more unicorn than pegasus. This is based on the royal pegasus guards being mostly white like Celestia, while the royal unicorn guards are mostly dark like Luna. Also, the moon has always been strongly associated with magic. I also think that Celestia's earth pony magic is more closely connected to plants, since plants need the sun to grow, while Luna's earth pony magic is more connected to animals - she does like her bats, after all. Cadence hasn't shown herself to be very good at magic (other than her special talent spells), and she doesn't fly much - maybe she's more earth pony than the others.

You know, I wondered this same thing. It always seemed like Luna was more magically adept than Celestia, and you seem to see Celestia fly a lot more than Luna (not that we see the Princess of the Night much as it is). However, for an earth pony-inclined alicorn Cadence doesn't seem very physically strong. This could be a result of weakness due to being incarcerated for a while, but still... not being able to at least budge a mining cart? I don't know.

[Lux]

The mine cart I think had stones in front of it which Twilight removed to get the cart rolling.

And yes, it does seem that Luna is leaning more towards the unicorn/ magic side that Celestia. In fact the only big spell Celestia ever did (aside from raising/lowering the sun) was in Lesson Zero when she stopped the ponies from fighting over the Smarty Pants doll.

[HopeFox]

You know, I wondered this same thing. It always seemed like Luna was more magically adept than Celestia, and you seem to see Celestia fly a lot more than Luna (not that we see the Princess of the Night much as it is). However, for an earth pony-inclined alicorn Cadence doesn't seem very physically strong. This could be a result of weakness due to being incarcerated for a while, but still... not being able to at least budge a mining cart? I don't know.

I've got no real evidence for Cadence being more earth pony than unicorn or pegasus, I just think it'd be amusing for Twilight Sparkle and Rainbow Dash to find out that Cadence is actually surprisingly bad at unicorn and pegasus magic, but surprisingly good at bucking apples. It'd make an interesting contrast to her refined upbringing and demeanour.

And yes, I think we saw Luna perform more magic in "Luna Eclipsed" than we've seen Celestia perform in the entire series.

[Kendrick]

(Discord's advocate position here )

Perhaps Celestia isn't that weak, but since the episodes with her in it are during the day, her power is tied up keeping the sun moving across the sky.

[starswirlthebearded]

(Discord's advocate position here )

Perhaps Celestia isn't that weak, but since the episodes with her in it are during the day, her power is tied up keeping the sun moving across the sky.

But then wouldn't that be the same with Luna at night? Luna Eclipsed occurred at night after all.

[SilverSwirl]

The mine cart I think had stones in front of it which Twilight removed to get the cart rolling.

And yes, it does seem that Luna is leaning more towards the unicorn/ magic side that Celestia. In fact the only big spell Celestia ever did (aside from raising/lowering the sun) was in Lesson Zero when she stopped the ponies from fighting over the Smarty Pants doll.

Well, look at it this way. If for 1000 years, you had to raise and lower both the sun and moon. Would you want to use magic frequently after that? I doubt it, you're magic power/reserves would be pretty exhausted compared to your sibling that was imprisoned in the moon, doing nothing. I could be 100% wrong though bur that is what I think anyway.

[EquestrianScholar]

The use of the word of unicorn in the first pilot was actually a mistake of the script if I remember correctly, but I would have to research that.

In the Canterlot Wedding final you need to remember that Cadence was supposed to be a unicorn so it woud made sense that the script would suggest 'unicorn'.

While alicorn is not canon what is canon is that the princesses are all three races, not a winged unicorn. On whether or not Celestia or Luna leans to unicorn or pegasus can't really be said much as they are not shown often enough. I would say this, one should consider that Celestia has more experiance and after what happened to Luna she is not a 1000 years ahead of her sister in experiance which would count magic.

[starswirlthebearded]

The use of the word of unicorn in the first pilot was actually a mistake of the script if I remember correctly, but I would have to research that.

In the Canterlot Wedding final you need to remember that Cadence was supposed to be a unicorn so it woud made sense that the script would suggest 'unicorn'.

While alicorn is not canon what is canon is that the princesses are all three races, not a winged unicorn. On whether or not Celestia or Luna leans to unicorn or pegasus can't really be said much as they are not shown often enough. I would say this, one should consider that Celestia has more experiance and after what happened to Luna she is not a 1000 years ahead of her sister in experiance which would count magic.

You have to remember that Faust only worked on it early on, so that is no excuse, because an editor would have easily caught that before going live with the script. Remember, the choice to put derpy's name in the script was last second, so for them to not change it in editing, is no reason to assume that alicorn is the canon name.

And as I said, we are taking how the ponies view them, not how we view them. They have the phenotypic traits of two races because the third has no real identifying feature. My question is why would they see them as an embodiment of all three if they can only see two. Hence why I think they are seem as winged unicorns.

[EquestrianScholar]

Actually it hasn't really come up when you consider for a moment, as none of the characters have ever actually talked about what their princesses are just that they are. They are awe inspiring figures of great power and age. Two sister that have control of night and day.

Sure they have wings and can use magic, a unicorn trait, but that would not mean they seem them as winged unicorns.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Perhaps its not just a matter of what they look like, but a matter of what they can do. Earth ponies can supposedly do things the other two cant, and while it hasn't been mentioned up front in the show yet, I don't think its unreasonable to assume that ponies in Equestria know whats up with Earth ponies and can recognize those abilities in their princesses.

[starswirlthebearded]

hi hi

Perhaps its not just a matter of what they look like, but a matter of what they can do. Earth ponies can supposedly do things the other two cant, and while it hasn't been mentioned up front in the show yet, I don't think its unreasonable to assume that ponies in Equestria know whats up with Earth ponies and can recognize those abilities in their princesses.

As suggested in hearth's warming eve, that would be a connection to the land mostly. We have not seen any alicorn display that connection. Perhaps they have "off camera," but we haven't seen it. That is certainly a possibility though.

[Lux]

"While alicorn is not canon what is canon is that the princesses are all three races, not a winged unicorn. On whether or not Celestia or Luna leans to unicorn or pegasus can't really be said much as they are not shown often enough. I would say this, one should consider that Celestia has more experiance and after what happened to Luna she is not a 1000 years ahead of her sister in experiance which would count magic."

True. Celestia does have more experience both on Equestria and interacting with ponies. Maybe the reason why we don't see many spells being cast by her compared to Luna is that Celestia in her 1,000 years found was to settle things without magic.

As for the winged unicorn part, that's just what a creature like Celestia is called mythologically. Canon wise they're just princesses and accepted as having all three traits.

This brings up a question: Is one born an Alicorn, or is one chosen and goes through a transformation to become an Alicorn?

I'm saying this because before coming here, I was on two MLP RP sites. One had in its lore that Alicorns were actually born normal ponies and chosen to become one, while the other mentioned that Alicorns were born, just like any other type.

[EquestrianScholar]

This brings up a question: Is one born an Alicorn, or is one chosen and goes through a transformation to become an Alicorn?

I'm saying this because before coming here, I was on two MLP RP sites. One had in its lore that Alicorns were actually born normal ponies and chosen to become one, while the other mentioned that Alicorns were born, just like any other type.

That is completely up to who ever is running the site and others in control of such... myself I have a creation mythology where in total there was been four alicorns. The 'king and queen', as they would later be called, who created the three races of pony based on their own make up as alicorns. Later they had daughters, Celestia and Luna.

Here is a small part of this story: "For life in the clouds they created the pegasi, those that would in the future actually learn to control the elements that played such a part in their lives. For life on the ground they make the earth ponies, who would as time went on learn how to bring life and growth to the land. Then there where unicorns, the only ones that could directly tap into the energy that naturally surrounded the land, that would be given the responsibilities of being keepers of knowledge and using their magic for others."

[Lux]

Interesting lore there. Equestrian Scholar.

[EquestrianScholar]

If you like I could post the lore somewhere, though it is incomplete and a WIP.

[Lux]

If you want that's fine. I like the lore that is created beyond just the show canon (this is why I like fanfics so much).

[EquestrianScholar]

Here we go: http://www.canterlot.com/topic/8290-the-hearts-of-the-sun-and-moon/