Fighting is Magic: Shut Down

[emeraldshadows]

It's not just the game and the doc that were screwed by Hasbro the last few months... FiW and Equestria Girls succumbed to Hasbro about 3 weeks ago.

[kunio18]

go sign the petition every pony to see if it actually helps

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/526/847/063/allow-the-continuation-of-the-development-of-mane6s-mlp-fighting-is-magic/

[elsporko]

I don't think online petitions have ever changed anything. I know its not Hasbro but the Crimson Echos (Chrono Trigger fan sequel that got a cease and decist) petitions led to nowhere and peitions for Earthbound to be rerelesed and Mother 3 translated have led to nothing and those included some major letter writing campaigns not just online stuff.

Sadly for fans is that companies care more about legalitys then doing something people will enjoy

[Rosewind]

I hope they accept Lauren Faust's proposal -- though it sucks they'd basically be remaking the game after all that work.

[Lux]

Sad to hear that it is being shut down. Hopefully Mane6 can negotiate with Hasbro on the basis of a non profit fan based game or just adjust it with OC characters instead of the Mane Six.

I do not blame Hasbro as much as I agree that when it comes to US trademarks it's kind of all or nothing with what to protect.

[elsporko]

I hope they accept Lauren Faust's proposal -- though it sucks they'd basically be remaking the game after all that work.

Changing the sprites shouldn't be too bad, maybe. I base that statement off of zero knowledge

[Huscarl]

Hasbro has the right to claim copyright on what it wants.

A fighting game based off of a Childrens show? Not really gonna go down well with the higher ups now is it? Kinda doomed from the word go.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

The sad part about this is that it will undoubtedly hurt Hasbro's bottom line. The statistics are very clear, this sort of thing only increases brand recognition and increases sales in the long run. I don't know the who or hows, but I suspect the reason that the game got a pass for as long as it did was because someone at Hasbro realizes this.

[DreamySunday]

The thing that sucks the most is that they were in the final stretch they had fluttershy left and then they were done.

[GreenshotApple]

Ughhh I was waiting for this day to come. Hoped it wouldn't, but here it is. Seeing Fighting is shutdown. I'm heartbroken

Soooo close....blasphemy! *Flips tables for charity*

[Mellorious]

[Parker_Izing]

A feasible outing...

They progress and release the game with Lauren's characters and 'clean' backgrounds.

They leave the background and character frames 'open'

Somebody else releases the frames for characters plus background practically hacking it to look like a FiM game.

Woops... now Mane6 are 100% innocent, because someone else modded the game...

[kunio18]

after some thought about this, this is actually really sad news, i cant even to begin to imagine how the mane6 feel right now, so much work and time put into it, really chokes the heart you know, im angry and sad that Hasbro almighty threw down its hammer of banning and knocked this right clean out of the fandom, i guess some things are just not really meant to be

feels, i really wanted to play this game, least we got the music ...................for now

[Lerian]

Ok, not a lawyer so no idea how any of that works but would it be possible to:

From the ethical/fighting perspective, grey the ponies out and have it as a side story to the 'Return of harmony' episodes? How the Mane six were acting to each other before Twilight regained her senses...

If that would be able garner Hasbro acceptance, is there not some way to legally say 'We are giving this permission, we are not giving them intellectual property/copyright ownership'. State the game was contracted out and ask for a percentage perhaps?

Even with copyright laws being what they are, the people who watch the figures must know what open fandom does for their sales* so I find it odd that 'something' cannot be done.

Anticipatory sadface for if/when they go after Ponykart.

*See lack of youtube episode takedowns. Scaremongering & small shots aside if Hasbro really wanted them gone, they would be.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

If Ponykart is smart, they'll take down every bit of public information they can until they are ready to release it.

[kunio18]

does any one else agree that if they did not do the tournament and go so viral in the gaming community none of this would have happened?

[starswirlthebearded]

Alright. First off... Some of the responses to this situation are part of the reason why I really can't call myself a "Brony." Something bad happens and everyone jumps to "Screw Hasbro!" or "I'm never buying from Hasbro again." Or that some how that their actions prove that they really don't care about us. It is uncalled for and quite frankly you should all be ashamed of yourselves. They've already done things they would have not done otherwise for us. They've proven time and time again that they know we (then adult fans) are here and they listen to us. So stop complaining about things like this and appreciate all they have already done for us and continue to do for us.

As for what happened here? First of all... It was NOT the work of Hasbro in its entirety. It was the work of ONE department completely isolated from the rest. Not only that, it was one department doing their duty to Hasbro. Something that if they didn't do, they either wouldn't be paid, or be fired on the whole for not doing their job. It is the responsibility of the legal department of Hasbro to protect their IP, which includes going after those whom are using their copyrights and trademarks without authorization or proper licensing.

What does that mean? Well part of trademark law is that they have to constantly police their IP. This is to prevent the IP from becoming generic. And part of deciding if something becomes generic, is looking at how the IP holder polices their IP. In otherwords, the more that they don't police it, the more issues they'll have in defending it. Eventually it can lead to losing the rights to the IP. Something which Hasbro doesn't want. So in actuality the legal department is only looking out for the well being of Hasbro and their MLP property.

As for how this could have been prevented? It couldn't have unless they got proper licensing from Hasbro. Is it possible they could have completed it by keeping silent and then releasing it? Yeah, probably. However a C&D would have gone out right after it went public and any further additions would have had to have been ceased.

As for why it made it this far... I can only guess. Personally I think it is because Hasbro legal is at constant war with counterfeiters and those whom are making poor copies of their toys. I'm sure there are other responsibilities they have to deal with as well for Hasbro. I don't think, however, that someone at Hasbro Legal thought to themselves "Oh this will increase our bottom line, better not touch it." Why? Because that isn't their job! They don't think about the bottom line, they think about how to protect Hasbro and its properties. I'm sure many at Hasbro Corporate didn't want to touch these gaming projects because they are free advertisement. I'm sure Hasbro Corporate loves it when fans use fair use to release new and interesting things that spread their property and increase their bottom line. And I'm sure some of them are angry that the Legal department had to do its job and send out that C&D letter. They also probably had to assess the situation, and determine what could happen or if they would have anything to go against if it went to court. So that probably added some time as well. Actually it is possible that Hasbro Legal submitted its findings and someone at Corporate questioned them constantly causing them more work to push the C&D through. Or again, they just had bigger fish to fry that required their immediate attention. Let's face it... A small group of developers working on a long term project? Not exactly the most dire situation, and something I'm sure they didn't mind putting off to deal with other things that were probably higher on their list.

As for how they got tipped off? Was it the tournament? Was it the internet buzz about it? I really don't know. It could have been any number of things. It could have been a legal scout who found it by chance. They could have known about it since the internet started making buzz. It could have been the Mane 6 Youtube account that got them noticed. It could have been the leak. So many things could have contributed to this C&D. All I know is that I saw it coming from the minute I heard about it.

Can Ponycart survive if they remove all public things and go completely dark? I'm going to say "yes." Hasbro needs legal proof that their IP is being threatened. And unless they know about it and are making copies of everything. That should allow the project to finish. However, if Hasbro Legal already has all the materials needed to send out a C&D, then no matter what they do, it will be stopped. I don't have eyes and ears inside of Hasbro Legal, so I don't know what they know, or how they operate.

However at the end of it all, I do respect them for protecting their IP, as is their legal duty. And they aren't as rabid as Toho is with Godzilla, so there is that.

That's my two cents.

-Star Swirl

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Or Hasbro could have put in a disclaimer about what constitutes fair use of their IP, which is what a lot of game companies do regarding mods.

[starswirlthebearded]

hi hi

Or Hasbro could have put in a disclaimer about what constitutes fair use of their IP, which is what a lot of game companies do regarding mods.

1) Hasbro is a toy company. They are focused on toys mainly, and they license out their property to gaming companies to make officially licensed games (Like Gameloft)

2) That is because modding is exactly what it is, modding. If modders took game architecture and sprites from a game and made another game, they'd be shot down pretty quickly. (In otherwords, say fans of say Mass Effect decided to do the same as Mane 6. Remix music found within, use the characters and backgrounds and make an entirely new fighting game. Do you think that BioWare would react any differently from Hasbro?)

3) Nothing in this game was actually fair use. The artist rendering of the sprites and backgrounds were not artists interpretations, but direct ports from vectors in the show. The only thing that was part of fair use were the music mixes. In order for them to have had a case, it would have had to been OCs and original backgrounds, and released without the name "My Little Pony" (which is trademarked) And the names. (OK they MIGHT have had a case with the sprites, but probably not the backgrounds)

#3 is the reason why Lauren Faust offered to make new sprites not associated with MLP franchise. There was no getting around this. They used the Trademarked name without proper licensing (And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the names of the characters also caused issue). And they used exact representations of copyrighted characters and backgrounds without licensing or permission. There was no getting around this one. They MIGHT have been able to make a case for the sprites if the names and appearances were sufficiently different.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Last I checked, Machinima still exists, and continues to make content out of other people's games.

[Mellorious]

Can we all just agree that the game was doomed, regardless of how much it stinks to high havens it got shut down?

[kunio18]

this is why we are not allowed nice things my fellow friends

[starswirlthebearded]

hi hi

Last I checked, Machinima still exists, and continues to make content out of other people's games.

Machinima has been in contact with the legal departments of many of the companies it uses the images of. And, has either gotten permission, or the terms of use and derivative works has been expanded to allow for them to continue creating. Microsoft and Blizzard have specifically addressed Machinima.

Mane 6 needs to do the same. In the end Machinima continues because the companies are allowing them to, and they have been GRANTED the permission to do so.

This didn't happen here.

And again, you are comparing game and software companies to a toy company. Their interests are much different. (They both want to make money, but their core philosophies in achieving that are much different)

EDIT: Oh and for the parallel... Machinima is on the same level as many of the original animation attempts from the Brony animators. And like Machinima, they haven't been given a C&D (Though the automated Youtube algorithms do take down the videos on a constant basis, but hey, that's a machine's doing). Only the games have received such treatment. There are many things to consider in copyright and trademark law. Clearly, the lawyers of Hasbro (who know more than both of us combined) saw fit to send a C&D, rather than allow them the use of the license free and clear.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I know how things went, what I'm saying is that things didn't have to go down like that.

Machinima was a way that individuals could make content based on another company's content without having to directly negotiate with the legal department as individuals. Brand exposure is a good thing, so there's no monetary reason for Hasbro to want to disallow it. When they found out about what was going on, they could have been pro-active about setting up a system of fair use terms with conditions for compliance instead.

[starswirlthebearded]

hi hi

I know how things went, what I'm saying is that things didn't have to go down like that. Machinima was a way that individuals could make content based on another company's content without having to directly negotiate with the legal department as individuals. Brand exposure is a good thing, so there's no monetary reason for Hasbro to want to disallow it. When they found out about what was going on, they could have been pro-active about setting up a system of fair use terms with conditions for compliance instead.

Ah I see. I misinterpreted what you meant. However, we still don't know Hasbro's exact reasons for not doing that. Brand exposure is usually a good thing, yes. However, we don't know why they specifically did what they did. Only Hasbro's legal and corporate executive branch does (maybe the PR too). Either way they would have had to do something publicly so that they would be policing its IP. They ended up choosing to not allow Mane 6 to continue. They likely had reasons, whether or not you or I would agree with those reasons is irrelevant.

It could have been something as simple as "This is a fighting game, and it does not reflect the image for this property we desire, and thus we cannot give allowance to this IP to be represented in that manner." (BTW, allowing them to continue with the fighting game might actually give further issues with representation of the IP, as controlling the image of an IP is a part of policing it, and allowing for licencees to use the IP in a manner that is different from the intent of the holder can in fact cancel the holder's rights to the IP IIRC) Yes, we have seen cartoon violence in the show, but that doesn't matter since that isn't the overall image of the series.