S03 E01-02: "The Crystal Empire"

[Rabukurafuto]

I absolutely loved this premiere. The first time I rewatched the same two episodes in the same day. Sombra is likely now my favorite villain on the program. I'm glad the writers wanted to do something different from the previous hammy, over-the-top villains from earlier who make big speeches on how victory is theirs. He said very little, but his traps convey to me a very cautious, organized, and prepared mind. Also, unlike Discord and Chrysalis, Sombra never just assumed he had the heroes defeated totally, allowing them to take him out with a surprise attack. Instead he was undone by something that wouldn't have occurred to him to plan for. I'm unsure if I want him to return though; I kind of like not knowing much about Sombra.

I loved the songs too. Can't get enough!

Overall, these might be my favorite episodes so far, and I look forward to what the future brings.

[Bellosh]

Two people who look the same are totally capable of having different personalities, and people who look different can have the same personality. The real distinguishing thing is how someone acts, how they sound, and how the feel. (I suspect that even if somepony like, lets say Braeburn, had a generic pony animation, his enthusiasm and catchy phrases would have made him stand out regardless.)

Even then, there is nothing to indicate that the writers actually desired all the crystal ponies to act the same way. As you mentioned, DHX had a limited screen time budget; therefore I'm sure for a slice-of-life situation, crystal ponies would display more individual personalities.

PS: for the most part, background ponies (BGPs) in general don't have much personality to them too. Ponyville BGPs alternate between states of "niceness" and "panic" as the plot requires, Canterlot ponies behave like aloof upper-class folk, and so on. Of course, no one would consider these ponies to be anything but 100% real ponies, correct?

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Background ponies are certainly allowed to stay in the background and not take up narrative space, but the Crystal Ponies, as I said, were a key component of the story. Lets look at some of the other episodes to compare and contrast.

In "Friendship is Magic," nobody goes out of their way to ask background ponies how they feel or what they know about Nightmare Moon. Nobody needs the background ponies to do anything for them. However, in "The Crystal Empire," there's a big scene involving trying to figure out what is up with the Crystal Ponies, and a large portion of the story, it is absolutely critical that the Crystal Ponies feel a certain way.

In "Putting Your Hoof Down," everyone in town starts acting surly and somewhat rude. Nobody comments on how strange this is, and it is generally assumed by the characters involved to be rather normal. In "The Crystal Empire," everyone in town is acting really strange, and the mane 6 comment regularly about how strange they are.

Although, now that I think about it, in the end the Crystal Fair wasn't actually necessary. The crystal heart was the only thing that really mattered, since the ponies were able to go from fear to calm the moment they saw the heart appear. In "Friendship is Magic," the point was that the physical elements weren't important because friendship came from within, but in "The Crystal Empire," the spirit within didn't matter without the magic artifact thingy, so I dunno, maybe I'm wrong and they weren't that important after all. I'm confused, and I wish I weren't.

[kunio18]

MOTHER OF CELESTIA !

im in total awe after watching it, i was crying at the end, i so much emotion with twilight's friends caring for her and that ending song just grabbed my heart, tears were shed.

apple jacks also got much more dialog and screen time and we see more of rarity being caring for twilight at the end too,,

words cant explain anymore awesome !

i think ive just died, that last song just completely done me in with emotional tears of joy that our pony's are back !

[Bellosh]

Background ponies are certainly allowed to stay in the background and not take up narrative space, but the Crystal Ponies, as I said, were a key component of the story.

I'm not quite sure how crystal ponies being a key story component has to do with the idea that "crystal ponies are not real ponies; they're just cogs in the machine" (paraphrase). Unless we hear otherwise from official sources, I'm not inclined to think that way.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I'm trying to figure this episode out here. I keep hearing people saying that this is, like, their favorite episode ever and I'd like to find the missing piece to the puzzle.

Why did they act like weird robots? The moment they saw the fair, they instantly and magically transformed. Did they just not have any other forms of entertainment? Did they not enjoy each other's company, so that friendship and being together wasn't enough to lift their spirits? What did they do for the rest of the year when the fair wasn't open?

[Bellosh]

The moment they saw the fair, they instantly and magically transformed.

The same thing happened to Pinkie Pie at the end of "Party of One". Once the sullen Pinkamena saw that her friends arranged a surprise birthday party for her, she magically transformed back into her usual self. I think all ponies are like that, to some extent. The only difference with the crystal ponies is their routine exposure to the powerful magic of the empire.

[SteelEagle]

hi hi

I'm trying to figure this episode out here. I keep hearing people saying that this is, like, their favorite episode ever and I'd like to find the missing piece to the puzzle.

Why did they act like weird robots? The moment they saw the fair, they instantly and magically transformed. Did they just not have any other forms of entertainment? Did they not enjoy each other's company, so that friendship and being together wasn't enough to lift their spirits? What did they do for the rest of the year when the fair wasn't open?

I'm fairly sure the implication was that for the thousand years the Empire was gone, they weren't out living their lives. They likely snapped through time- when they went to sleep/the curse took place, it was a thousand years ago. They wake up/immediately, it's now. That meant that all they could remember- as we see with the first crystal pony- is a life of servitude to an absurdly evil tyrant. He stole their history. He stole their memory. All they knew was servitude. They were remorselessly crushed underneath his hoof. There was no crystal fair; there was no crystal heart; there was no love or joy or anything beside his enslavement of them.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Well, that sounds reasonable. I'll have to try keeping that in mind when I watch the episode again.

[SteelEagle]

I think that's why I'm warming up to King Sombra as a villain. He seems like the most...cruel of all the villains thus far. The rest were just doing what was in their nature, as evil as they were. Sombra was an unrelenting, soul crushing tyrant.

[ThanksForThePonies]

I think everyone's pretty much said what needs to be said regarding the episode as a whole, but I've got a few more little things just for myself. First off - it seems that the Elements of Harmony can basically do ANYTHING, from banishing someone to the moon to turning someone into stone to turning into shadow. And on that note, WHY WOULD YOU TURN ANY DANGEROUS THING INTO SHADOW. That doesn't defeat the danger, that throws about +500 points of Utterly Terrifying at it.A

Also, has anyone managed to catch a glimpse of Derpy? If Berry Punch managed to get to the Crystal Fair for a bit of its 'nectar', than surely the ditzy dependable mailmare could pop in with a package delivery?

[tacobob]

I enjoyed the episode...King Sombra is cool, but he was more of a plot device...He did look a little surprised when his body reformed..I wonder if he was able to stay in his full form for a bit, would he go beyond a growling slobbering monster and be a real threat? There were a ton of fun little moments...Just loved the look on Fluttershy's face when she stepped on the Fluttershy costume.... !!

[ShadowWalking18]

NEW SEASON! NEW SEASON!!! WHOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! *Explodes with joy*

[Lerian]

hi hi

I'm trying to figure this episode out here. I keep hearing people saying that this is, like, their favorite episode ever and I'd like to find the missing piece to the puzzle.

Why did they act like weird robots? The moment they saw the fair, they instantly and magically transformed. Did they just not have any other forms of entertainment? Did they not enjoy each other's company, so that friendship and being together wasn't enough to lift their spirits? What did they do for the rest of the year when the fair wasn't open?

Speculation/idea:

It may be that all other forms of entertainment were taken from them, literally or 'mentally'.

"I can't seem to remember anything before King Sombra came to power and I don't want to remember anything about the time he ruled over us." - My entire culture has been painfully removed from my mind, it causes me more pain to try to remember it. My entire mind/memory is only filled with my time as a slave so I don't want to think about that. I have no cultural identity, memory of joy/hope, no memory of friendship, of social interaction* or even an idea what a pleasant experience might be.

Hope can be an incredibly bizarre thing. Imagine a scene where a person has been trapped on a desert island for a long time, they are despondant, don't have the strength or will to do anything other than survive day to day when.... Is that a plane? Insti-hope!

Also, on the idea of illusionary test or 'trollestia' as put forward by various posts.

"The Empires magic is powerful, it cannot fall again my sister"

A comment and conversation held between the sisters with nopony else present.

^Getting further into speculation here, I have no idea of the social conditions of their slavery.

[TheInvisiblePony]

I think everyone's pretty much said what needs to be said regarding the episode as a whole, but I've got a few more little things just for myself. First off - it seems that the Elements of Harmony can basically do ANYTHING, from banishing someone to the moon to turning someone into stone to turning into shadow. And on that note, WHY WOULD YOU TURN ANY DANGEROUS THING INTO SHADOW. That doesn't defeat the danger, that throws about +500 points of Utterly Terrifying at it.A

Well, think about it, every time a villain was defeated, the punishment fit the crime somewhat ironically. Nightmare moon wanted everlasting night, so she was banished to the moon. Discord wanted eternal chaos, so he was transformed into the most static predictable substance available: Unchanging, predictable stone. Chrysalis wanted to invade Canterlot to feed off of love, so love inevitably defeated her by scattering her army across Equestria, making impossible to mobilize and risk another invasion.

So Mr. Sombra, as the only dark magic user thus far (excluding the-closest-thing-to-a-god-this-show-has Celestia, and of course Twi, since she wasn't around 1000 years ago) it would only be fitting to turn him into little more than a shadow of the magics he possessed, then cast out into arctic cold that matched the coldness of his heart. Least, that's my take.

[weesh]

A solid set of episodes.

Good stuff:

• I don't share your need to have a strong villain...how the main characters react is much more important. They came through marvelously on that point.
  
• I loved Twilight's excitement about the big library. I was expecting pinkie to find the book in the library though. She is normally the best emergency book finder in clutch moments.
  
• More shots of guard ponies, and not ones of them being completely ineffective.
  
• Spike saving the day was cool, but better still is the acknowledgement that it is ok to delegate important tasks and give someone else the glory.
  
• Shining Armor's snow glasses. Those are actually very similar to the low tech, but highly effective snow glasses that Native Alaskan's used to use. They didn't have glass or plastic, but carved wooden goggles with slits could be used to prevent snowblindness.
  

Better justification for why neither Luna nor Celestia could accompany them would have been nice. I'm sure it exists, but I shouldn't need to use that much creativity for something that important.

I...CAN'T...WAIT...for the moment when Twilight approaches Celestia free of fear, and confidant in Celestia's love for herself. This is getting old...

Ooh! No, I got it! The whole thing actually was just a test for Twilight. That's why no one knew about Crystal ponies before and why there weren't any books about them. Thats why Cadence and Shining Armor left in advance, so they could set the whole thing up, why everything look pristine and new, why King Sombre didn't have much to say, why no one had much to say about their past, and why Celestia wasn't worried about Twilight failing.

LOL!

[Volt]

Yes, it was important to get Twilight (and the audience) to care for the crystal ponies.

I just had to reference to this you know. Perhaps it might be a bit off topic, just a tiny bit, but when I was watching the livestream it made me laugh after staring at the show without confidence.

Transcript from The Crystal Empire Part 2, I mark, it's SECOND part where Twilight knows what's happening already.

Shining Armor: I have to find the Crystal Heart-

Twilight Sparkle: No, you stay here with Cadance. She needs you, Shining Armor. I'll retrieve the heart.

Rainbow Dash: Let's do this.

Twilight Sparkle: I've been trying to figure out how I'm meant to pass Celestia's test. Retrieving the Crystal Heart must be it.

My first and most obvious thought? Test > The fate of Empire. She was not trying to figure out helping them, but passing the test throughout an entire part 1? Even after learning who threatens the Empire and what's happening to Cadance? Bad Twilight Sparkle, bad. I'd send you to the corner.

[Lerian]

"Why were there so few designs of cutie marks for the crystal ponies"

As they were slaves for X years perhaps only certain talents were common or were allowed. (Useless talent? no more food for you!)

Corn - Farm

Bow - not sure (if human I'd say hunter especially being further north but omnivorous ponies is no so...)*

Castle thing - Builders

Fleur de lis - Not sure (Taking care of children, with relevant implications)

Also from Wikipeadia - In Mauritius, slaves were branded with a fleur-de-lis.

*EDIT:- two ideas, hunters of meat for the pointy toothed, Carnivorous King Sombra? Hunters of ponies who escaped?

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

So, I got a chance to talk to some of my friends about the episode, and I was relieved to hear that I wasn't the only one who thought the Crystal Ponies acted like weird robots. One of my friends had this hypothesis about them, which I think sounds actually somewhat reasonable.

The Crystal Ponies are actually sentient, magical constructs.

• At the end of the episode, they show you how normal ponies can turn into crystal ponies. ie, you don't make them the normal mammal way, at the very least.

• Thats why there weren't really any colts or fillies in the present Crystal Empire.

• The whole purpose of the Crystal Empire seems to involve reflecting love and harmony across the world, in the form of the northern lights.

• The Crystal Ponies seem very susceptible to changes in emotion, like the crystals around them, they change from light to dark easily.

• That gives King Sombre a motive, since if the Crystal Ponies are actually made out of Crystals, using them as slaves to mine more crystals would be the necessary way to expand his empire.

• Thats also why they all acted the same in regards to the Crystal Fair, because it was their central purpose in life to power the Crystal Heart and spread light across the world. It was why they were constructed in the first place. ((Compare the episode to Luna Eclipsed, even though it was half as long, we saw a cranky old pony declare "I should have been in bed 5 hours ago," we saw a nervous pony say "visitors not welcome on Nightmare Night," we saw little Colts and Fillies running around being scared, older mares scaring them, and other mares trying to keep them from being scared. Different viewpoints on the same event.))

• Thats why they only have a few different kinds of Cutie Marks, because they were built with specific purposes in mind.

• There was even a period of time where they were treated as slaves, by a character who wasn't a Crystal Pony. Just like how in a lot of stories about intelligent robots, they start off as slaves, but people realize they deserve to be treated fairly because of their intelligence. (Twilight Sparkle's realization later in the episode.)

• Thats why King Sombre was able to curse them, even though curses don't exist in the setting. They're powered by emotions, so all he had to do was put up a shield to block emotions, much like how Cadence and Shining Armor made a shield to keep him out. And without emotions, they disappeared.

• And it helps explain why King Sombre was so evil, because he tapped into his negative emotions to power them all.

[tacobob]

And we got this scene....

Dwaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[MidnightBlackhorn]

And we got this scene....

Dwaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Exactly what I said

[Bellosh]

• At the end of the episode, they show you how normal ponies can turn into crystal ponies. ie, you don't make them the normal mammal way, at the very least.

Nothing indicates that once crystallized, a once-normal pony would no longer be capable of reproduction. And we saw a crystal filly in the flashback sequence at the start.

• Thats why there weren't really any colts or fillies in the present Crystal Empire.

Maybe Sombra banned all unauthorized breeding activities?

• The Crystal Ponies seem very susceptible to changes in emotion, like the crystals around them, they change from light to dark easily.

So are the Mane 6, if Discord's discording was any indication.

• Thats also why they all acted the same in regards to the Crystal Fair, because it was their central purpose in life to power the Crystal Heart and spread light across the world.

Or as SteelEagle already suggested, King Sombra could have outright stolen the individuality of each of his slaves. After all, they seemed to have forgotten their very occupations. Maybe the crystal ponies needed more time to get their unique personalities back?

• Thats why they only have a few different kinds of Cutie Marks, because they were built with specific purposes in mind.

Or has been suggested, that was all Sombra's work too.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Yeah, King Sombre was a pretty bad guy who was capable of doing all sorts of things to his former subjects. And he was shown in the episode to be able to mess with the emotional and physical state of the Crystal Ponies. Just seeing his dark crystals was enough to turn them dark again. Though the Mane Six were not similarly altered.

[Ciraxis]

hi hi

So, I got a chance to talk to some of my friends about the episode, and I was relieved to hear that I wasn't the only one who thought the Crystal Ponies acted like weird robots. One of my friends had this hypothesis about them, which I think sounds actually somewhat reasonable.

The Crystal Ponies are actually sentient, magical constructs.

• At the end of the episode, they show you how normal ponies can turn into crystal ponies. ie, you don't make them the normal mammal way, at the very least.

• Thats why there weren't really any colts or fillies in the present Crystal Empire.

• The whole purpose of the Crystal Empire seems to involve reflecting love and harmony across the world, in the form of the northern lights.

• The Crystal Ponies seem very susceptible to changes in emotion, like the crystals around them, they change from light to dark easily.

• That gives King Sombre a motive, since if the Crystal Ponies are actually made out of Crystals, using them as slaves to mine more crystals would be the necessary way to expand his empire.

• Thats also why they all acted the same in regards to the Crystal Fair, because it was their central purpose in life to power the Crystal Heart and spread light across the world. It was why they were constructed in the first place. ((Compare the episode to Luna Eclipsed, even though it was half as long, we saw a cranky old pony declare "I should have been in bed 5 hours ago," we saw a nervous pony say "visitors not welcome on Nightmare Night," we saw little Colts and Fillies running around being scared, older mares scaring them, and other mares trying to keep them from being scared. Different viewpoints on the same event.))

• Thats why they only have a few different kinds of Cutie Marks, because they were built with specific purposes in mind.

• There was even a period of time where they were treated as slaves, by a character who wasn't a Crystal Pony. Just like how in a lot of stories about intelligent robots, they start off as slaves, but people realize they deserve to be treated fairly because of their intelligence. (Twilight Sparkle's realization later in the episode.)

• Thats why King Sombre was able to curse them, even though curses don't exist in the setting. They're powered by emotions, so all he had to do was put up a shield to block emotions, much like how Cadence and Shining Armor made a shield to keep him out. And without emotions, they disappeared.

• And it helps explain why King Sombre was so evil, because he tapped into his negative emotions to power them all.

You know Ginger...it reminds me of one story I heard.

One day, Tex Avery creator of Daffy Duck was at some public meeting (I can't recall what it was about but it matters not). Suddenly one man from the audience asked to have some say. He made complete psychological analysis of Daffy along with listing his mental problems and asked Avery about opinion. To which Tex said "Mister, you propably right. But for me it's just crazy duck."

........Which I think it applies here too.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Well, I guess its possible that the episodes were just some random crazy stuff slapped together for the sake of conveniently marketing of toys... I sure hope thats not the case though. I get the feeling that the writers are alluding to something more thats going to happen later, but I suppose some amount of cynicism might be warranted in this case.