elsporko Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 I really disliked this episode Probably my second least favorite episode I enjoyed it up to Daring Doo being revealed then it just felt like bad self insert fanfiction to the point that I thought it was going to have the twist that Rainbow spent her wait time writing a story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkleheart Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 ... I'm still trying to download it because Youtube decided I smell like pee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrowghost Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Wow, after consideration and even watching the episode one more time, I think it's safe to say that yes, I also have mixed feelings for the episode too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RarityDash Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I personally don't quite entirely get all the complaints about Daring Do being real. Equestria is a fantasy world, at its best when it's at its most fantastic. Making these stories a real part of that world just enriches it, I think. As a real pony, Daring Do is a pony who isn't a part of the mane six, doing big and important things in regions that Equestria likely can't watch after herself, who ponies like Rainbow Dash and even Twilight can admire. I don't really see the harm of having a character like this be a player in a fantasy work. All it does is disrupt the meta text aspect, which I'm not sure it does exactly; Dash is still super excited about reading it as a novel, even after she's been on the real adventure.I wonder if part of the problem isn't just that it crashed a lot of headcanons. For my money, after three watches now, I'm still seeing a delightful and fun, exciting episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadabra Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I was disappointed by this episode. I kept waiting for Yearling to say "Thanks for the brainstorming session everypony! That really helped break my writers block!" It would have explained her earlier behavior, and allowed her a chance to talk frankly to Rainbow Dash about aspects of help. Such a missed opportunity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippo Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 The question of the reality of Daring Do being a problem for people is something I feel I'm a part of. I am greatly jealous of those who seem to think it does not matter, for if I thought that way I would be able to enjoy the episode more and not think too hardly on it. But at the same time, I sometimes wonder how influential what I'm concerned about is something I really do need to be worried about. How much should I let my own intuition affect how I like the show? Should I seek guidance for finding a consistent style of pony show that I can neatly enjoy, or should I plainly see them as cartoon characters that aren't real and nothing more?And then I saw them. I was completely understanding of my position when I saw some tweets Dave Polsky put out.https://twitter.com/...399943976075264https://twitter.com/DavePolsky/status/409811668164567040So how about that? If Daring Do is now a tangible character into MLP:FiM's universe, then how does she fit in? I think that question alone pretty much sums up my discomfort from the outcome of this episode. I want so much to be able to talk about how great this episode is, it's just hard with that very large subject matter blocking the entire plotline in the story.To the argument of fantasy, I would say that it's easy to see how a fantasy within a fantasy is a very important line to cross. If it weren't, Discord's trolling wouldn't have any affect on the ponies, as all of the strange things he does would no long be seen as 'strange'. Yes, Equestria is a fantasy land of talking horses, but within that fantasy, there is a reality. With Daring Do, it would really feel about as strange as finding out that any fictional novel is actually something that is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosewind Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I can see why some people are polarized about this episode. Equestria is just one part of the whole. There's an entire world out there, with its own problems. Celestia is aware, but a lot of that is outside of her sphere of influence, or her ability to manage. Think of it like a world leader in real life -- our U.S. President knows there's some serious issues happening in other countries, but his primary focus is his home turf. I watched this episode expecting some plot twist or deus ex machina, that moment where the story would tell us "Sorry, this is all just a lie. Allow me to safely preserve your perception of this world." It didn't happen, and I think that made it even better because it made no apologies to the viewer. It delivered on every front and didn't cop out or fall over to any tropes. It left me with a sense of "Wow! That was amazing, did that all just happen?" Some people don't like it because it did the same thing Twilicorn did -- it demonstrated that we have no control over what happens in this whimsical, magical-horse universe. The fact anything can happen -- the fact that they can easily switch gears and change things -- makes a lot of people uncomfortable as hell, and that's a good thing.A lot of us went into this episode with different headcanons over what might happen and who would be involved, and it shattered nearly all of them. A hallmark of good writing is keeping the viewer in suspense; keeping them in that moment of "Ooh, what is going to happen next?!" It gave this universe a feeling of wonder and uncertainty. That is smart storytelling at its finest.Daring Do's shift from a story character to a real character opened a lot more possibilities for another plot thread -- we might learn more about her, her origins, and why she's such a heavy player in the background lands of Equestria. I welcome this concept personally, as it allows more opportunities for high adventure and fun with ponies outside of the heavier episodes we've been getting between the seasonal shift. It was an episode designed to be fun, and reinforces the concept that anything can happen, whether we like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elsporko Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I personally don't quite entirely get all the complaints about Daring Do being real. Equestria is a fantasy world, at its best when it's at its most fantastic. Making these stories a real part of that world just enriches it, I think. As a real pony, Daring Do is a pony who isn't a part of the mane six, doing big and important things in regions that Equestria likely can't watch after herself, who ponies like Rainbow Dash and even Twilight can admire. I don't really see the harm of having a character like this be a player in a fantasy work. All it does is disrupt the meta text aspect, which I'm not sure it does exactly; Dash is still super excited about reading it as a novel, even after she's been on the real adventure.I wonder if part of the problem isn't just that it crashed a lot of headcanons. For my money, after three watches now, I'm still seeing a delightful and fun, exciting episode.A fictional character suddenly being real is poor writingWhy doesn't anybody know she is realWhy does Daring Doo say her work is full of secrets and then publish her storiesIf all these villains are real why aren't people going after themWhy didnt Daring Doo's arch nemesis recognize her when she put leaves on her face I think pretty much all of the issues of how dumb making a fictional character real with no explanation is having J K Yearling write stories based on her own experiences like the lady from murder She Wrote Then you don't have all this Daring Doo nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starswirlthebearded Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 If Daring Do is real, all I gotta say is she owes those villains a substantial royalty check for using them as characters in her books which are presented as fiction, but are actually real. Maybe they would be less evil if they got some money out of that book deal. I mean did you SEE that bag of bits Daring was toting?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacobob Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 And unless Dr. Caballeron is known to the public as a crooked archaeologist, he can probably sue Yearling as well! That's slander! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXDashieXx Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Yay!!! It was SUCH a good episode!! Flip ending how Daring Do is AK Yearling!! Anyways, I liked Dashie's reaction at the end. She starts flying in a eight! Lots of excitement. Daring Do doesn't realize that Dashie just saved her life . Yea, it was a very good episode but still, my favorite was the first 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starswirlthebearded Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 And unless Dr. Caballeron is known to the public as a crooked archaeologist, he can probably sue Yearling as well! That's slander! Incorrect sir! In print it is libel... But yeah, that's probably true too. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacobob Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 They might as well of called this the "Dash Makes Der Crazy Faces" episode. Cause there's a ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXDashieXx Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 They might as well of called this the "Dash Makes Der Crazy Faces" episode. Cause there's a ton.That would be an very interesting episode! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianblackberry Posted December 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 They might as well of called this the "Dash Makes Der Crazy Faces" episode. Cause there's a ton.Best face:This had better be a meme! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacobob Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Best face:This had better be a meme!I was gonna post that one, but since everyone in the world already did, I passed. And yeah, it's a meme..Just can't post those that I've seen so far....here..on this site.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianblackberry Posted December 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I was gonna post that one, but since everyone in the world already did, I passed. And yeah, it's a meme..Just can't post those that I've seen so far....here..on this site.. I love this one too: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starswirlthebearded Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I just finished my 3rd watch through...And aside from things already brought up about how they presented this and Daring Do being real (I have little issue with her being real, but how it was done left much to be desired IMHO), I realized something that bothered me slightly... The journal/diary entry at the end... it sounded WAY too much like a letter to Celestia. Couldn't they make it sound more like a diary or journal entry? They basically took letters and started calling them Diary entries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I also get the sense that this episode will reveal a divide between those fans who prioritize entertainment, and those who analyze everything in-depth and expect the worldbuilding of FiM to be conducted as believably as possible. Thing is, I think it's clear by now that the writers will never care about the latter. The truth of the matter is that FiM was never supposed to be a show that took worldbuilding (or anything else) too seriously; it's a cartoon show designed to entertain young children.Sure, everyone who complains about the plotholes in this episode are technically right. But if an episodes does a really job of entertaining me on the first try, I'm perfectly able to ignore such flaws. In my opinion, just because the realism of an episode doesn't hold up over scrutiny doesn't make it a poor example of writing; especially when realistic scenarios have never been one of FiM's objective in the first place. Personally, I don't think I would have enjoyed Daring Don't as much if it wasted time justifying everything in it instead of making me entertained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elsporko Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 All I want is a show that has an internal logic that makes sense. Daring Doo doesn't right from the premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RarityDash Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 A fictional character suddenly being real is poor writingWhy? Because it doesn't happen in reality?MLP is a fantasy series. Why can't it's fiction turn out to be real? Seems plausible enough to me.Why doesn't anybody know she is realI would put that up to the remoteness of where she operates. The pony world is generally characterized as being not as technical as ours. I think it's reasonable to say there wouldn't be a reliable spread of information from these areas far from Equestria proper, which haven't been settled. And I'm sure that those at the top like Celestia do know, but are content to keep it as fiction.Why does Daring Doo say her work is full of secrets and then publish her storiesIt's a matter of timing. It makes sense that someone like Daring would be guarding of secrets while they could still influence the task at hand. Once that task is complete, there isn't as much harm in sharing that information. At that point, in fact, she likely wants ponies everywhere to know what's been happening.If all these villains are real why aren't people going after themAgain, there probably aren't that many Equestrian ponies operating period in the areas we saw if they're as remote as I would assume they are. Ahiuzotl probably doesn't leave the Basin area we saw and has no interest in Equestria itself. As for Caballeron, he probably spends most of his time in the wilderness too; when and if he returns to Equestria, people who have read the books probably chalk it up to coincidence or something.Why didnt Daring Doo's arch nemesis recognize her when she put leaves on her face . Blinded by all those bits, maybe? I don't know, That disguise was pretty terrible.I think pretty much all of the issues of how dumb making a fictional character real with no explanation is having J K Yearling write stories based on her own experiences like the lady from murder She Wrote Then you don't have all this Daring Doo nonsense I don't see what's implausible about that either; As an adventurer working out there alone in the wilderness, she probably both wants to share the incredible experiences she had and she also needs a flow of income to support her exploits. Writing novels based on her adventures is a way to do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Blinded by all those bits, maybe? I don't know, That disguise was pretty terrible.Effective paper-thin disguises have been a staple of animation ever since the Loony Tunes days. Not surprised at all to see it happen in a FiM episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippo Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Best face:This had better be a meme!Every time I think about that picture, I swear I remember her having a moustache, but its not actually there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrowghost Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 That face also appeared as a scepter too. Besides, I would totally make a motivational poster and say, "Daring's flank is hot!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkleheart Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Wow. This was, kind of a mix of great ideas and terrible ideas. I like the action and adventure stuff, having Rainbow Dash just insert herself into it and having it be all real... Yeah, no. I think it would've worked better if it turned out to be a dream she was having, and still learned something from thinking about it. But instead it basically ended up being a self-insert fic made into canon.And it's also pretty obvious they never had plans for anyone to see the *real* Daring Do, considering she's a color swap of Rainbow Dash... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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