Guide to "official" Magic in MLP?

[Ashton]

This may belong in another forum, I'm not sure.

I'm trying to work out the "official" rules of how Magic works in the FiM universe...

The overall concept seems to be "only Unicorns can do active magic" and "Pegasai can do weather magic"

The sub-text to the first "rule" seems to be "unless you have a 'mage' talent (like Twilight or Trixie), you can only do magic related to your talent (And telekinesis)" However on at least 1 occasion we've seen a unicorn perform magic NOT related to his talent (Snails (Snips?) made his horn glow in Boast Busters)

There is also an argument to whether Zecora performs "magic" or a form of "Alchemy"

Next, There is a distinct magic aura when spike sends letters to Celestia and regurgitates her responses. Does this mean dragons have magic?

Last, It's been said that Pegasai have magic related to weather. We've seen them create storms and even tornadoes. Also the Wonderbolts make lightning and storm clouds trails. (Not to mention Rainbow Dash's trail of rainbows, and arguably possibly the trail of rainbow fire she left behind in May the Best Pet Win)

Now, yes, I am trying to organize them FOR a fanfic, but I'm trying to work out the OFFICIAL rules outlined by the episodes (or official sources) so please no references to fan works.

Thoughts?

[Snowshoe]

I think it's been stated that everyone has magic. Earth ponies have a special magic connection to the earth, etc. So it can be seen that everyone has magic (dragons with magic fire, zebras with magic that allows them to make their brews, etc). However, in the case of Spike, being hatched by magic could possibly have an effect.

Also, there was just recently posted here an explanation for unicorn magic in that every unicorn has a different level of magic, allowing some to preform more magic than the other.

As for the Wonderbolts creating their trails, I chalk it up to their suits: Aerobatic teams rely on smoke to enhance their tricks, making them more visual. The suits may be magic'd to allow them to create stormcloud trails. Dash may use her pegasus magic to a similar effect showing how she wishes she was part of that aerobatic team.

[Hippo]

I never actually see Rainbow's mane spitting rainbows. I always saw the trail she leaves behind as the blur her tail creates when she flies by. This was seen by Pinkie's streak of pink in Party of One, too. Remember that in cartoons, the reality of physics can be stretched and over-exaggerated. These looney illustrations can sometimes skew the difference between magic and science and make the two principles closer together than they are in our real world. Why is Trixie able to jump high in the air during her outtake with the Ursa Minor? Because its a cartoon, not because it's magic.

[Ashton]

I think it's been stated that everyone has magic. Earth ponies have a special magic connection to the earth, etc. So it can be seen that everyone has magic (dragons with magic fire, zebras with magic that allows them to make their brews, etc). However, in the case of Spike, being hatched by magic could possibly have an effect.

I'm not 100% sure just what "magic" earth ponies have, what little I've seen seems to just be common sense...

I'm not sure about the dragons, though - spike's fire seems to send stuff to celestia, but other dragons in the series lack such a skill. I'm wondering if it's a specific spell he casts before he does it (Making him a minor mage?)

Also, there was just recently posted here an explanation for unicorn magic in that every unicorn has a different level of magic, allowing some to preform more magic than the other.

That's a similar explanation to what a friend of mine said "All unicorns can perform magic, it's just harder for (non-mages)" citing how much trouble it was for the unicorn to make his horn glow --- but that he COULD do it. Of course this then begs the question of where the limits lie... and do they change per unicorn? the Princesses are downright Reality Warpers (but this could be due to their being Alicorns/Pegacorns or godesses) Could twilight do the same with more effort? Could Snips+Snails? (though the latter I think the required effort might kill them...)

As for the Wonderbolts creating their trails, I chalk it up to their suits: Aerobatic teams rely on smoke to enhance their tricks, making them more visual. The suits may be magic'd to allow them to create stormcloud trails. Dash may use her pegasus magic to a similar effect showing how she wishes she was part of that aerobatic team.

Not just smoke though - lightning too ("best night ever" when they first fly out in "reality" and also in Dash's "dream")

The counter-argument I've seen though is "if pegasai can make clouds, why do they make them at the weather factory?"

my guess for this is "pegasai magic is just like all other magic, enough of it wears the pony out, so it's better to just mass-produce them than to force each pegasus to make them themselves"

I never actually see Rainbow's mane spitting rainbows. I always saw the trail she leaves behind as the blur her tail creates when she flies by. This was seen by Pinkie's streak of pink in Party of One, too. Remember that in cartoons, the reality of physics can be stretched and over-exaggerated.

Watch filly dash when she first makes a sonic rainboom, her mane literally turns to rainbows (though this is a "memory/dream" so arguably it might just be how Dash envisioned it)

It seems rather long to just be the blur from her tail, imo, however at the same time, I've never taken the time to really compare the lengths... (also doesn't account for the rainbow fire, or the zig-zag rainbow left behind in "May the Best Pet Win")

This is true, though pinky especially has been stated as being able to exploit cartoon physics to an extreme (upto and including 4th-wall awareness/breaking), while most of the characters have to maintain *some* realism.

[Hippo]

It's actually pretty hard to draw conclusions of measurements in cartoons. The worldbuilding hasn't even been able to figure out some of the impossible floor plans of the insides of the buidlings. Are we to claim that magic causes the insides of the buildings to expand or something? Magic in this show is simply illustrated by those wavey lines, and there isn't much else to prove it otherwise exists in other non-unicorn ponies.

Related to this topic, I think we may find some evidence of pony races and their relationships with each other in this next episode. If you read the expanded synopsis of the episode, you'll see what i mean.

[Ashton]

Are we to claim that magic causes the insides of the buildings to expand or something?

No, that's jut silly - The buildings are OBVIOUSLY TARDISes! lol

Related to this topic, I think we may find some evidence of pony races and their relationships with each other in this next episode. If you read the expanded synopsis of the episode, you'll see what i mean.

I avoid spoilers like the plague, but I look forward to seeing it

[Snowshoe]

I'm not 100% sure just what "magic" earth ponies have, what little I've seen seems to just be common sense...

I'm not sure about the dragons, though - spike's fire seems to send stuff to celestia, but other dragons in the series lack such a skill. I'm wondering if it's a specific spell he casts before he does it (Making him a minor mage?)

That's a similar explanation to what a friend of mine said "All unicorns can perform magic, it's just harder for (non-mages)" citing how much trouble it was for the unicorn to make his horn glow --- but that he COULD do it. Of course this then begs the question of where the limits lie... and do they change per unicorn? the Princesses are downright Reality Warpers (but this could be due to their being Alicorns/Pegacorns or godesses) Could twilight do the same with more effort? Could Snips+Snails? (though the latter I think the required effort might kill them...)

Not just smoke though - lightning too ("best night ever" when they first fly out in "reality" and also in Dash's "dream")

in order:

Again, I can't find the interview, but one, with Faust herself I believe, has it stated that magic exists for all ponies. Remember that magic doesn't need to manifest itself as powers: pegasi can control weather, stand on clouds, and manipulate them into "solid" objects. For all we know Earth pony magic involves a connection to the earth that lets them be more adept at growing plants, or aiding animals, etc.

Spike was hatched by magic. Perhaps that gave him his letter sending ability?

It's less effort, more innate skill I believe. Also note that there's magic but not particularly "mages", per se. Spike doesn't need to be a mage to do his letter sending thing, it's innate. Twilight is shown to have incredible innate ability at magic, while others, like say Rarity, are shown with only minor manipulation of items. It just relates to their innate abilities...Twilight, being a powerful unicorn, has magic as her special ability. Rarity, a dressmaker, uses her ability to manipulate a sewing machine, needle, etc.

Finally, the 'Bolts. I still say magic suits involving static electricity for the 'Bolts' trails, that can be turned on or off. It's not present when they fly in Sweet and Elite nor in Secret of My Excess, only performances. Either pegasi can create "contrails", or the 'Bolts' suits are at work.

All your points are valid food for thought though ^^

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Moving this to Writing Discussion.

[Ashton]

in order:

Again, I can't find the interview, but one, with Faust herself I believe, has it stated that magic exists for all ponies. Remember that magic doesn't need to manifest itself as powers: pegasi can control weather, stand on clouds, and manipulate them into "solid" objects. For all we know Earth pony magic involves a connection to the earth that lets them be more adept at growing plants, or aiding animals, etc.

Interesting idea, hopefully something will pop up to back this up since so far honestly no earth-pony has shown what I would consider a major "nature connection" unless you count AJ's herding skills, and it's implied that's more because she's a cowgirl rather than because she's an earth-pony...

Spike was hatched by magic. Perhaps that gave him his letter sending ability?

Not sure - I'm thinking that might have given him some for of magic though since his fire is green not yellow like the other 2 dragons.

Also spike *can* use his fire as, well, fire. He' sbeen shown to burn things several times without the "magic" effect and without them getting sent to celestia, so I'm thinking it's something he has to trigger himself rather than an innate ability...

It's less effort, more innate skill I believe. Also note that there's magic but not particularly "mages", per se. Spike doesn't need to be a mage to do his letter sending thing, it's innate. Twilight is shown to have incredible innate ability at magic, while others, like say Rarity, are shown with only minor manipulation of items. It just relates to their innate abilities...Twilight, being a powerful unicorn, has magic as her special ability. Rarity, a dressmaker, uses her ability to manipulate a sewing machine, needle, etc.

Yes, this much is clear. I'm just curious how capable unicorns are at using non-inate magic (like snails lighting his horn) because that opens a world of possibilities compared to "your magic relates to your tallent"

Finally, the 'Bolts. I still say magic suits involving static electricity for the 'Bolts' trails, that can be turned on or off. It's not present when they fly in Sweet and Elite nor in Secret of My Excess, only performances. Either pegasi can create "contrails", or the 'Bolts' suits are at work.

I'll have to check, I thought I saw another pegasus do it before, which would mean it's an inate ability...

Also the lightning - we see Dash summoning lightning from the cloud in "Luna Eclipsed" (while in "Friendship is Magic Pt 1" she summons Rain from a similar cloud) which makes me wonder if they have much more fine-control over what happens to clouds becides just moving them around and standing on them...

All your points are valid food for thought though ^^

Thank you, and I appoligize if I seem to be nit-picking, I'm just trying to fully understand the system that's in place before I go off breaking it and fixing it my own way lol

Moving this to Proposed Lore and Discussion.

I thought this area was purely for RP stuff (as opposed to trying to figure out the official rules of magic), my appologies for sticking the thread in the wrong board >.<

Moving this to Writing Discussion.

OOO my thread is getting bounced all around! lol (again, sorry for the wrong place, I thought as I'm asking about the official Hasbro/FiM rules it went in the "universe" discussion)

[MyLittlePonyTales]

I thought this area was purely for RP stuff (as opposed to trying to figure out the official rules of magic), my appologies for sticking the thread in the wrong board >.<

I actually moved it to Writing Discussion instead and edited my post, likely while you were in the process of replying.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

There are a few other topics on the board related to magic, might want to check those out and see if they can help you. (They're organized from least recent to most recent.)

How do spells work?

Glossaria Arcana

Questionable powers? (Need advice.)

How does unicorn magic work?

[Archives]Unicorn Ponies

Equestrian Theory of Magic

Thaumo-tech and flying chariots

[Ashton]

There are a few other topics on the board related to magic, might want to check those out and see if they can help you. (They're organized from least recent to most recent.)

How do spells work?

Glossaria Arcana

Questionable powers? (Need advice.)

How does unicorn magic work?

[Archives]Unicorn Ponies

Equestrian Theory of Magic

Thaumo-tech and flying chariots

wow... a lot to take in...

A few thoughts since I'm not going to necro those old threads...

Unicorn magic being a force of nature that is controlled through will... I just have to quote "Magic, magic, do as you will"

Also, this may seem obvious, but who says the spellbooks ARENT incantations and Twilight/Trixie/etc arent just reciting them in their head? (possibly so the studio can circumvent 'Gratuitous Latin' during production)

The idea that a unicorn's magic resides in it's horn makes me seriously wonder if a non-unicorn could perform magic using a unicorn horn (either by er... removing.. one from a live unicorn or by taking the horn from a deceased unicorn)

This also makes me wonder about other kinds of magic such as invoking the raw primal elements (earth/fire/wind/water), clarical magic (essentially 'praying' for an effect), or even Words of Power (in short speaking the language of the Gods and commanding things to happen - words that cannot even be properly pronounced without training and ar usually signified in stories/games/etc by bracketing in exclamation marks (such as the famous !LIVE!, !PAIN!, and !DEATH! from, iirc Dungeons and Dragons)

Of course this is all speculation since none of what I'm babling about occurs in Canon (except possibly the mental recitation of spells) But it's certainly food for thought (and fanfics...)

[AznAxis]

Just wanted to point out that Trixie isn't really a "mage" type unicorn like Twilight is. Trixie is a magician (not a mage), and all of her magical abilities revolve around illusions and showmanship. In that sense, she is a fairly typical unicorn.

[Snowshoe]

Also the lightning - we see Dash summoning lightning from the cloud in "Luna Eclipsed" (while in "Friendship is Magic Pt 1" she summons Rain from a similar cloud) which makes me wonder if they have much more fine-control over what happens to clouds becides just moving them around and standing on them...

Actually this brings up a thought to me: contrails are created by water vapour and jet engine exhaust. However, a similar effect is produced called Wingtip Vortices (the thin clouds seen on the tips of high speed aircraft like jet fighters). It's entirely possible that as a pegasus flies at relatively high speeds (the Wonderbolts are shown in season 2 as being able to fly fast enough to be blurs (Sweet and Elite) and shear off dragon spines (Secret of My Excess), so it's possible they preform at high speeds too), they form a similar kind of "magic" contrail or wingtip vortex or other condensation trail, which, using the pegasus' innate ability to control clouds, could be used to modify these trails: for the 'Bolts, they use friction generated by their suits to charge the clouds with static to make thunderclouds, while Dash modifies her "contrails" through pegasus magic to cause them to separate into a mist, which when the sun hits causes a rainbow. Neither the Wonderbolts nor Dash always leave trails behind, and in Sonic Rainboom, the 'Bolts are flying slower than usual and while they still have a trail, it's brighter than usual and there's no lightning.

[Ashton]

Just wanted to point out that Trixie isn't really a "mage" type unicorn like Twilight is. Trixie is a magician (not a mage), and all of her magical abilities revolve around illusions and showmanship. In that sense, she is a fairly typical unicorn.

Actually "mage" is the shortened form of "Magician" but I see your point.

Actually this brings up a thought to me: contrails are created by water vapour and jet engine exhaust. However, a similar effect is produced called Wingtip Vortices (the thin clouds seen on the tips of high speed aircraft like jet fighters). It's entirely possible that as a pegasus flies at relatively high speeds (the Wonderbolts are shown in season 2 as being able to fly fast enough to be blurs (Sweet and Elite) and shear off dragon spines (Secret of My Excess), so it's possible they preform at high speeds too), they form a similar kind of "magic" contrail or wingtip vortex or other condensation trail, which, using the pegasus' innate ability to control clouds, could be used to modify these trails: for the 'Bolts, they use friction generated by their suits to charge the clouds with static to make thunderclouds, while Dash modifies her "contrails" through pegasus magic to cause them to separate into a mist, which when the sun hits causes a rainbow. Neither the Wonderbolts nor Dash always leave trails behind, and in Sonic Rainboom, the 'Bolts are flying slower than usual and while they still have a trail, it's brighter than usual and there's no lightning.

It just hit me how amusing it is that we're digging so deep into science to explain a tv show about candy-colored talking ponies... lol (not that it's a bad thing, just amusing)

I love the idea that the suits are made to collect and discharge static! (as awesome as it is, being able to control lightning is kinda a game-breaker in most stories) Though at the same time, I point out also in Luna Exclipsed where Dash just kicked the cloud and it created lightning, of course this could have been specifically because it was a "thunder head" cloud isntead of a "rain cloud" or the white clouds created from high-speed flight...

The issue with Dash's trail though is she can go from a stand-still and leave it, there is no opportunity to create waver vapor unless she keeps herself perpetually wet... (though on this note I want to point out she did almost exactly the trick you mentioned in "boast busters" - flying through clouds, collecting moisture, then causing light to reflect off it to make a rainbow over her head) Of course on the other paw, we dont know what the relative humidity is in ponyville, it's quite possible that she has an invisible cloud of moisture floating around her at all times specifically for this occurrence...

[Strife]

Read only original post, forgive any repeated comments.

It has been said that "magic is simply the physics of another world". The same can apply here. Due to the large amount of creatures/objects that show 'magical' properties, there can be multiple 'levels' of magic.

Innate (Birthright) - Certain abilities gained from birth, normally from genetics. Examples:

1. Pegasus / Griffon ability to walk on clouds
   
2. Pegasus ability to manipulate clouds (although the creation of weather of open to debate. We know it is a factory in Cloudsdale, but it has yet to be seen if the process is magical, scientific, or combined).
   
3. ​Unicorn telekinesis
   
4. Cockatrice stonegazing
   
5. Phoenix rebirth
   

Innate (Unique) - Abilities gained from birth, but unique to the individual. Examples:

1. Rarity's gem-finding spell
   
2. Spike's transportation breath (on scrolls)
   
3. Twilight's teleportation
   

Learned - Abilities / Spells that were gained from intentional education. Examples:

1. Twilight and Trixie's display of magic that do something other than telekinesis
   
   • Only time I can recall anypony else doing something to this effect are the Princesses (although that can arguably fall under Birthright or Unique for Alicorns)
     

Other - Anything without a specific category. Examples:

1. Plants like Poison Joke seem to have magical properties, but this can be attributed to unique chemical reactions (or another scientific approach)
   
2. Alchemy similar to that practiced by Zecora can be Scientific, Magical, or even a combination
   
3. Relics like the Elements of Harmony have obvious magical properties, but it unsure of their origins (enchanted by somepony else, natural product of the world, etc)
   

[Ashton]

This was posted in another of my threads and I'm cross-posting it here:

All the Wonderbolts seem to have a stream of a color similar-ish to their mane from time to time when they fly fast, and we don't even know if they produce that, so you'd have to rule out the usage of some kind of devise embedded in their costumes that emits a smoke or vapor trail refracting the colors of her tail.

My PERSONAL take on this is that all pegasai can create clouds, however it takes so much effort that for large storms and such, it's better to mass-produce them instead of making the individual teams create them. But, seeing as outside of the wonderbolt's we've never seen a Pegasus create a cloud, I'm relegating it to fanon...

@ Strife:

Innate (Unique) - Abilities gained from birth, but unique to the individual. Examples:

• Rarity's gem-finding spell
  
• Spike's transportation breath (on scrolls)
  

These are interesting points because (1) Twilight was able to copy rarity's spell, which makes me wonder if all unicorns can perform magic if they learn how (or alternately if mage unicorns can copy any other unicorn's magic if they choose) and (2) We dont know that Spike can ONLY transport scrolls. Logically speaking, scrolls are simply paper, and so if paper is transported, Twilight's book (in Owls Well that Ends Well) should have been transported too. I'm thinking there is some kind of spell that spike uses (possibly as simple as wishing to transport the scroll) that sends them. However, if this were the case, then all the scrolls in "Griffen the brushoff" that he burned when he got the hiccups should have just been incinerated... Alternately, the scrolls all bear a seal on them that could be enchanted to transport whatever it's attached to directly to celestia when it's burned. Which then begs the question of what happens if the seal is attached to something else...

[cooky cackoos]

I honestley dont know i think it deppends on..

[Strife]

(1) True, I believe Twilight did track gems, but that a conscious effort. Rarity first 'casted' the gem location spell without any sort of conscious effect beforehand, even being pulled to gems against her will. It is possible that most spells using a horn can be learned by any unicorn through study, while some are born with a more naturalized affinity towards certain spells (which would also explain Twilight's accidental teleportation).

(2) Too many variables to make any certain conclusions, but it is safe to assume a key component is likely Spike's breath.

Also, about the topic of Pegasi. Color trails can easily be attributed to the streaked light effect. For example, take a glowing toy into a dark room and shake it around ... it leaves a 'trail' the color of the glow. Simply a trick of the eye. The actual formation of clouds is harder to explain (for when the Wonderbolts do their stunts). It is possible they use residual moisture in the sky to form it, something to do with their uniforms, or pegasi really can create certain weather effects on demand (Although it is hard to come to solid conclusion due to the fact we have only seen Wonderbolts create cloud trails).

[Ashton]

The mystery was solved!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p9pdkrlbdEQ/TuzWx4TMp6I/AAAAAAAAYRc/Il3Vi4pxN3k/s1600/Capture.PNG

(taked from Equestria Daily)

Spike's item-teleport breath IS a spell taught to him by Celestia, though specifics are vague, it is a special ability that only he has, not other dragons.

[Strife]

The mystery was solved!

http://3.bp.blogspot...600/Capture.PNG

(taked from Equestria Daily)

Spike's item-teleport breath IS a spell taught to him by Celestia, though specifics are vague, it is a special ability that only he has, not other dragons.

Could be considered a mix between Innate and Studied, very interesting all the same.

[Ashton]

I'm still trying to decide wheather he can send objects this way or not. Obviously if they fit inside the scroll (such as the 2 tickets in "The Ticket Master") but what about larger objects? (for instance, I'm writing a story right now where Spike is trapped in Dash's cloud house (fun story there, if your interested I'll post the outline) and he's trying to tell celestia where he is, so he sends random items to her from RD's house in hopes she puzzles it out (Wonderbolts Poster, Cloudsdale Weather Factory Hat, Cloudaseum Best Young Flier ticket stub --- amusingly these convince clestia that he's in cloudsdale)

[Strife]

It would really depend on how the process itself works. Sounds like he can send objects of any size, but I would assume the larger the object, the more practice and effort and it would take. Although I would draw the line at living material (plants, creatures, etc) since it having to be burned, magical fire or not, would probably not survive the trip.

[Strife]

Some explanation on the weather thing has been given via canon!

Hearth's Warming Eve possible spoiler!

In the episode it was explained that ONLY Earth Ponies could grow food, Pegasi control weather, and Unicorns raise the sun/moon. So Pegasi being able to naturally manipulate weather is canon.

It could be said that their ability to manipulate weather has degraded over time, so it does not come easily to them anymore. With proper intense training they could gain back some of the prowess, hence the Wonderbolts forming clouds in their wake, but for mass-production of weather it requires a factory with efforts of many Pegasi.

[AznAxis]

Just curious...but how would Spike not fall through the clouds that comprise everything in Cloudsdale? Only Pegasi have been shown to be able to interact with clouds as though they were solid objects. Twilight's spell was another option but was mentioned as being only temporary.