Fan Pandering

[kunio18]

right so ive heard about complaints to the new writers of season 3 from various people that the new season is fan pandering...!?!? what the hay does that even mean is this a bad thing?.... is this why Sibsy was re coloured in the latest episode and a convenient lack of derpy..?

whatever this means its really ridiculous, but i have been hearing alot of news going about mlp and this fan pandering business,,

[MidnightBlackhorn]

Pay no mind, just ridiculous flankhurt is all it is

[NoGiantRobots1983]

Pandering means basically putting stuff in the show just so the bronies will squee. There were a lot of complaints about that in season two as well.

I can see where its coming from, but I don't see how it detracts from the show. On the whole, Season Three has been a definite step up from Season Two.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

I definitely feel there is a lot of stuff in season 3 that was popular among the fandom, whether in fanfics or just in general. I'm not sure if it's coincidence, or if they're actually gearing things toward the fans. I feel that it IS a bad thing, because I didn't start watching the show for the shout outs. I want to watch an unbiased show for kids, that is magical and colourful.

[kunio18]

isnt that a good thing though i mean, if an animator wants more publicity and views ect. popularity for there shows they will put in some fan added scenarios,

how can fan pandering be a bad thing!?!?

it just sounds like more people will watch it

[WhiteSlash]

Might lose sight of what we all found so enticing in the first place. I'm also a bit torn between thinking it's bad or good but I think I'm leaning more towards bad.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

I appreciate the effort, if indeed they are pandering. But I'm not watching the show to watch a fanfic headcanon unfold. I want a story no one else can write except the FiM creative team.

[NoGiantRobots1983]

isnt that a good thing though i mean, if an animator wants more publicity and views ect. popularity for there shows they will put in some fan added scenarios,

how can fan pandering be a bad thing!?!?

it just sounds like more people will watch it

It can be bad because most of us don't watch it for memes, we watch it for fun and escapism. I for one like to believe that Equestria is a real world that might be out there, somewhere, and when I watch the show I like to believe I see things that did or could actually happen there. If there's something inserted that's clearly a reference to something outside the show itself, then suddenly I'm reminded of that thing, and then I'm not "escaping" to the world of Equestria anymore--its pulled me back into the real world by reminding me that it is a cartoon.

Not to mention, internet memes tend to be pretty shallow, while well-constructed universes tend to be deep and involving, so there's an obvious clash.

That being said, the only episode I saw recently that felt like it had "pandering" was The Magic Duel, and none of it was anything that drew me out of the universe. To be honest, episodes like "Mare do Well" which blatantly change the technology level of Equestria, or marketing gimmicks like the Friendship Express, bother me FAR more than pandering does.

[Rosewind]

Fan canon is based heavily on natural events that make sense to us, or represent "what if?" situations that would be fun to see unfold. Great examples include Trixie's return, and now Dash's training with the Wonderbolts. Both were explored heavily in fanfiction before wind of any episode about them took place, because it was logical and made sense to the story and universe.

I think the writers of the show have been quite good about staying on their own path, any shout outs are strictly for background fun, and the quality of the show is as focused as it was then as it is now. I think more of this sort of thing is just coming to a head because we're more aware of what goes on in an episode. Keep in mind a lot of S3 was written around the time pony was really starting to take off, so a lot of the fancanon and fanfics may have not existed before this content did. What we will see more of in the future are reservations with "fan pandering" or shout outs, because of situations like Derpy.

[Bellosh]

Eh, I'm reluctant to call anything we've seen in S3 pandering if it can be explained by the writers and a fraction of fans happening to be on the same wavelength when it comes to plot ideas and such.

[Davroth]

They used to defy genre convention, now they are kinda relishing in it. It's kinda disappointing. If that's the direction the show takes, I'm not even sad if this is the last season of MLP FiM.

I think the episodes resembling fan fiction is coincidental, though. It's more that the writers run out of creative juice, I think, and the quality control is getting more and more lax.

And it's kinda weird, because they are doing things that they already did but better. Like Sombra, for example. A common complaint I heard was that he was one dimensional, and that's entirely true, and indeed, it wasn't his point to be more then what he was, a threat to the Crystal Kingdom. And as that, he worked, but the problem is, if you make the antagonist a sentient being, we started to expect them to have an agenda, to have a plan and motivations, and Sombra gave us none of that. All we got was that he was obsessed with crystals, and some vague dark unicorn magic we haven't seen before. However, the thing is, in the seasons prior to the third, they just used monster when they needed a not clearly defined threat. Think the Windegos, or the Timber Wolves. However, by giving the villain a face and a voice, of course the viewers will expect something more in line with previous villains.

And the Trixie episode suffered from something similar for me, at least. I /hated/ the last minute redemption she got in her second episode. She didn't need one in her first episode, and she didn't need one now. It's not so much pandering to the fans, and more pandering to children. The notion that, all of the sudden, Trixie isn't allowed to be a jerk any more because everything has to be squeaky clean at the end of an episode is just lazy and a retreading of what children television has been doing forever.

The only episode this season so far that didn't fall into that trap for me was Sleepless in Ponyville. Sure, having Luna in it could be considered Fanservice par excelance, but other then that, it was just very well done and addressed a relateable problem for the young viewers.

So all in all, I'm disappointed so far, but I don't think that it's fan pandering that causes this problem for me. Then again, the second season was nothing short of amazing. So everything coming now I consider bonus, and if I can get one more episode I like out of it, then I'm more then happy with it.

[NoGiantRobots1983]

And it's kinda weird, because they are doing things that they already did but better. Like Sombra, for example. A common complaint I heard was that he was one dimensional, and that's entirely true, and indeed, it wasn't his point to be more then what he was, a threat to the Crystal Kingdom. And as that, he worked, but the problem is, if you make the antagonist a sentient being, we started to expect them to have an agenda, to have a plan and motivations, and Sombra gave us none of that. All we got was that he was obsessed with crystals, and some vague dark unicorn magic we haven't seen before. However, the thing is, in the seasons prior to the third, they just used monster when they needed a not clearly defined threat. Think the Windegos, or the Timber Wolves. However, by giving the villain a face and a voice, of course the viewers will expect something more in line with previous villains.

I disagree. A villain who is more of a presence than a driving force can work--see Sauron, as was discussed when the episode first aired. Personally I feel Sombra is better because of his more "ominous presence" role rather than if he were another doofus with a clever plan. At least he can't be as pathetic as Discord.

And the Trixie episode suffered from something similar for me, at least. I /hated/ the last minute redemption she got in her second episode. She didn't need one in her first episode, and she didn't need one now. It's not so much pandering to the fans, and more pandering to children. The notion that, all of the sudden, Trixie isn't allowed to be a jerk any more because everything has to be squeaky clean at the end of an episode is just lazy and a retreading of what children television has been doing forever.

Again I disagree, because what "children's television has been doing forever" is letting evil villains stay evil, not find true redemption. How many times does Starscream join the Autobots and actually stay with them? How many times does Skeletor become a Master of the Universe? It never happens, because in american animation, its always "good is good, evil is evil, and a leopard can't change its spots." Personally I was afraid from the beginning that MLP would take this same approach and decide that all evil is absolute, and I was actually relieved and glad that forgiveness exists in this universe.

So all in all, I'm disappointed so far, but I don't think that it's fan pandering that causes this problem for me. Then again, the second season was nothing short of amazing. So everything coming now I consider bonus, and if I can get one more episode I like out of it, then I'm more then happy with it.

And for the last time, I disagree--to me season two has been the weakest of the seasons so far.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

It depends on what you consider pandering. Some people are saying that simple having Trixie or Spitfire in the episodes at all is pandering to fans, and that is in my opinion incredibly silly. These characters were made for the show, by the people who are making the show, and it would be silly for them to not use the characters they already put work into making. Furthermore, the writers aren't allowed to read fan-fiction and such anyways.

Stuff that gets added into the background and squeezed in during the storyboarding process however, is done by a different group of people who don't have quite the same kinds of restrictions as the writers. Shoutouts and pop culture references can distract from the actual story if they become too much, and there's a lesson in there that you don't need to fill the screen with as much junk as you possibly can. (and you probably shouldn't) Most of the stuff that looks like pandering to me seems more like writers or animators satisfying their own whims rather than anything targeted at fans specifically.

Endings have always been a problem in Friendship is Magic, and a lot of other shows as well. A rushed ending is nothing new, and season 1 and 2 sure had their fair share. Trixie's redemption was set up from the very beginning with Twilight's foreshadowing about her learning her lesson, and indeed the script for that episode was started incredibly early in the production cycle. (It was originally supposed to be an episode in Season 2) If it fails for any reason, it is because the ending was rushed, just like Over a Barrel, A Bird in the Hoof, Best Night Ever, Secret of my Excess, or Mmmmystery on the Friendship Express; not because of pandering to fans.

Each season has had some episodes that were worse than others, and in my opinion, Season 3 didn't start off very strong at all. However, I think some of that might be on account of having to appease corporate executives rather than trying to please fans. (Crystal crystal crystal crystal crystal, ad nauseam.) Magic Duel was certainly a silly episode, and it could have used some polish to make it stand on its own two feet rather than relying on Boast Busters so much, but they really haven't done direct sequels like that before. I suspect if it had aired immediately after Boast Busters, it might have been received differently.

If you're not convinced that pandering can be a bad thing though, just go watch Star Wars: The Phantom Menace.

[SteelEagle]

Pandering can be a problem if it overtakes or drives the creative team. Pandering as in shot-outs or winks to fandom has been fine for a while- see: Derpy, Fluttertree, etc. I don't see anything unusual in S3 thus far regarding pandering.

[Hippo]

Pandering can be a problem if it overtakes or drives the creative team. Pandering as in shot-outs or winks to fandom has been fine for a while- see: Derpy, Fluttertree, etc. I don't see anything unusual in S3 thus far regarding pandering.

And what's funny is that a lot of these things could just be considered callbacks. And of course there would be more callbacks in more recent episodes. Season 1 episodes had nothing to call back to. Except maybe G3.

[weesh]

Last season i expressed concerns that if they started writing a bunch of the episode that we wanted, it could hurt the show. This year, I am happy with what they have done, so they have stayed on the right side of the line as far as I am concerned.

[Tenkan]

Writing, music, animation, and generally the whole show is still in great quality. Perhaps there is a bit of pan fandering, but I don't care since it's still in good shape!

[Davroth]

I disagree. A villain who is more of a presence than a driving force can work--see Sauron, as was discussed when the episode first aired. Personally I feel Sombra is better because of his more "ominous presence" role rather than if he were another doofus with a clever plan. At least he can't be as pathetic as Discord.

The difference is that Sauron isn't some guy in a tundra throwing a tantrum. He's practically a deity. And if you care, he has an agenda and everything. He isn't just a menacing presence. Plus, his presence is given shape in his many underlings, who pose a quite real threat to the party. If you get right down to it, Sauron is a doofus with a clever plan, only that the clever plan already backfired when when the novels set in.

You are comparing apples and oranges here.

Again I disagree, because what "children's television has been doing forever" is letting evil villains stay evil, not find true redemption. How many times does Starscream join the Autobots and actually stay with them? How many times does Skeletor become a Master of the Universe? It never happens, because in american animation, its always "good is good, evil is evil, and a leopard can't change its spots." Personally I was afraid from the beginning that MLP would take this same approach and decide that all evil is absolute, and I was actually relieved and glad that forgiveness exists in this universe.

What you are missing is the target audience for those shows compared to MLP FiM. I invite you to look at the other shows that are shown in that time slot, and then you tell me how many irredeemably evil characters you can make out, okay?

And for the last time, I disagree--to me season two has been the weakest of the seasons so far.

That's just a matter of opinion, really, then.

[kunio18]

i just really hope that the brony community doesn't change at all, all this talk ive heard about pandering and the fandom dying it out is shocking to hear

tbh i really miss derpy, still waiting to see her in season 3 and then my faith in humanity will be restor d

[chardude]

Maybe theres less of her because there planing something big for her to do? not like, mane 6 big but BG big... maybe she'll talk again o.o

[Parker_Izing]

Was wrapping my brain on this yesterday, I don't want the show to loss it's freshness due to flan panning ,but well, as back as S1E15 there had been pandering around (Derpy) so I thrust them to tame pandering down to tolerable levels...

[kunio18]

Maybe theres less of her because there planing something big for her to do? not like, mane 6 big but BG big... maybe she'll talk again o.o

one can only hope

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Personally, I find the notion that people should necessarily be irredeemable to be kinda cynical and entirely contrary to the root premise of the show in general, which is that Friendship is Magic. The very first villain on the show was redeemed, and went on to become one of the most popular characters. (Luna) The main six and the cutie mark crusaders have messed things up dozens of times and still have been worth redemption.

According to the Center For Creative Justice, which handles a lot of first time offender cases around where I live, when given a second chance (ie probation, supervision and deferred judgement rather than prison), 86% of people do not re-offend.

I could go and cite specific examples of various characters in various shows, but children's television is full of perpetual villains and villains that become good for no reason. In Friendship is Magic, the villains have motivations, and the problem with Trixie is that we never got a chance to understand her motivation one way or another because she was out of her mind when she was terrorizing ponyville for the whole episode, and they didn't have enough time to establish her as a character after the fact. That doesn't, however, negate the message of the episode or devalue her apology at the end. If she had vowed revenge instead of apologizing, it would have seemed just as baseless.

[Star1228]

In my honest opinion, the show really hasn't been pandering to us enough that it takes away from the show as a whole. for the most part, the most they've done are callbacks or references to fanon ideas. if whole episodes were based around fanon, then I'd feel the show stepped too far, but at the point of this writing, it hasn't.

Also, the trixie episode was written a while back, so I don't exactly consider it pandering to the base. just one heck of a coincidence.

[Starfox64x]

It's silly nonesense... The Trixie episode was planned for Season 2, and frankly i havent seen anything that would be considered pandering... I'm fairly certain these complaints are coming from fans who are too deep into the fandom, and now suddenly they see everythign as a reference to the show...

"Robot Unicorn attack makes an upsdate that says 'Rainbow Dash'? OMG THEYRE BRONIES!" Even though the game was made long ago, had a Dash attack that created a rainbow...

"Pinkie Pie being kooky? Just like all the fanfics i've read!" Yeah... because that's her character...

My question is, where is Derpy? you want REAL fan pandering, they would have Derpy in her own episode and in every other episode as well... But i havent sen much of her... which i'm kinda sad about , but i'm not mad... I just dont understand... fans want more content from them, but then they want to complain about there being fan pandering...