Rabukurafuto Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 You're right, it's not so much sexism as it is Discrimination.Sexism is discrimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelEagle Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 This is not something that everyone knows about. Not everyone in this fandom has had years of experience with fandoms on the Internet, especially considering the target demographic. Friendship is Magic could easily be one of the first fandoms a young fan could join. Consider non-fans looking at it from the outside too. Most wouldn't look at it and automatically think "The fandom of this must have sexist fans". A good portion of comments on the essay are from male fans surprised there would be some incidents that brazen, who hadn't given sexism in their fandoms thought before.Consider that the majority of people who look this information up aren't fandom newbies, or that the multiple studies on subject have shown the average age of someone in this fandom is above eighteen- meaning that in all likelihood, of those that would consider themselves bronies, you are looking at an age group that is also going to be well-versed in the sadness that is general online culture. As for people outside the fandom- I don't really care what they think and never have, just as a Trekkie or a Whovian or whatever someone who likes Friends is called shouldn't give a wooden nickle what I think of them.As for the male fans who are 'surprised'- to be honest, I'd consider them generally ignorant and dumb if they didn't see it as an issue before. They're gonna express shock and then do what similarly ignorant people- don't change anything they do. And since the only people who this could change don't change, the essay is pointless. Note however that I think people who are galvanized to change beliefs because of heavily edited, agenda drive documentaries are also ignorant and dumb and I don't really care about their thought processes either. They're generally the type who will see something like Blackfish, get really mad about it for 48 hours, and then go to Sea World six months later if it is a birthday present. You know what really hurts Sea World? Consistent messaging backed up by hard ecological data over time.I also fully admit that the sheer awfulness of the 'research' and 'persuasive writing' as well as the faux Atlas of the Intellectuals at the start made me eye roll to the extent that I frankly couldn't take a single word of the entire piece deeper than a bee sting. I mean my god, almost every one of his points was prefaced with "some males..." which is really, really poor writing and research. Some people are sexist. Some are racist. Some are Neo-Nazis. Some are Stalinists. Some are Zionists. Some are terrorist sympathizers. Some people even like Fluttershy. What does some mean? Is it is a statistically significant term? If this was a paper submitted at the University, college, or even High School level, it would have been eaten alive by any teacher or professor worth his or her salary. It is so poorly written, phrased, and researched and so single minded and devoted to what the message was that the whole thing is a slog.If someone does have their views changed because of this then more power to them, but I have a shiny object they might be interested in as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianblackberry Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Sexism is discrimination.I think they meant the issue goes beyond "just" sexism into general discrimination based on multiple factors because a large portion of the fandom is immature and self-entitled. The sexism is bad, but it is a symptom of an even larger problem.I am just glad I have met the people I have (mostly though this site, plus a few locals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RarityDash Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I also fully admit that the sheer awfulness of the 'research' and 'persuasive writing' as well as the faux Atlas of the Intellectuals at the start made me eye roll to the extent that I frankly couldn't take a single word of the entire piece deeper than a bee sting. I mean my god, almost every one of his points was prefaced with "some males..." which is really, really poor writing and research. Some people are sexist. Some are racist. Some are Neo-Nazis. Some are Stalinists. Some are Zionists. Some are terrorist sympathizers. Some people even like Fluttershy. What does some mean? Is it is a statistically significant term? If this was a paper submitted at the University, college, or even High School level, it would have been eaten alive by any teacher or professor worth his or her salary. It is so poorly written, phrased, and researched and so single minded and devoted to what the message was that the whole thing is a slog.It's really not that poorly written Steel, at least in the technical sense. It is, as you said, a slog; I'll admit I didn't have the patience to read it all and skimmed around to certain points I found more interesting. It's not perfect, but saying it wouldn't make the cut in High School even is hyperbolizing way too far. Standards in high school are almost non-existent; any high school teacher who saw 25 pages of more or less properly worded sentences, with attempts at original research get submitted for an essay would approve. It probably depends on the school when it comes to higher education, but I think in a lot of cases, at least for an undergraduate course, a professor would be pleased to see this from a student. I know I faked my way through more than a few essays in my first couple years of college. But putting that aside, I get where you're coming from, but I don't think I can quite agree. Saying you don't care about the people who are dumb and ignorant is the wrong approach, as I've found in most cases they're the majority. Silly people with limited knowledge can often be the ones who set the norms for any kind of culture. Even if this is akin to just waving a bright flag in front of those people, even if it could only ever elicit temporary change in isolated individuals within the larger group, I'd argue that that is better than nothing. Maybe something like this could even encourage research more in line with your expectations. Regardless, it's hard for me to see this sort of sentiment as being too far misguided. Some of the coolest people I've met through Pony and through Canterlot in particular are female. Personally, I'd say if this sort of attitude exists anywhere in any group, it deserves to be challenged, no matter how futile it may appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I think they meant the issue goes beyond "just" sexism into general discrimination based on multiple factors because a large portion of the fandom is immature and self-entitled. The sexism is bad, but it is a symptom of an even larger problem.I am just glad I have met the people I have (mostly though this site, plus a few locals).Ding ding ding!That is correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apolline Allura Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Funny thing about the sexism piece, my ex amusedly points out to me that it's hilarious how much easier it is for her to acquire pony merch than me.She looks like she's a few years younger than she really is. In sharp contrast, I look a little older than I am. She's twenty-three and I'm twenty-one. Whatever sexism does exist, it's not one sided. (Incidentially, when I do purchase or rock pony merch, I always keep my headphones on and talk to someone while I'm at the checkout because I'd rather not the conversation at the Target near my job about why I show up and purchase all this little girls TV show merch.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyMoon Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RarityDash Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Well, that's a different issue, I'd say, Allura. That's more an example of gender expectations in society as a whole as opposed to something within a particular community. changing the norms of the whole society would be even harder a feat than changing a fandom. For now we just need to buy our pony merch with confidence... or just buy it all online like I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillhart Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I was going to respond to this thread but I realized that my response would do better as a thread on its own .-.Here you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaria Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 *Fans ALL the flames* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankT Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 This is the reason why I border on feminism! I... cannot win this argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 This is the reason why I border on feminism! I... cannot win this argument.Boarder on Feminism? Feminism when represented properly is wanting both men and women to be equal, unlike TV and such we're not about running around with female symbols as our weapons and masks stealing all the Susan B Anthony coins, I promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankT Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Well I'm glad to hear that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkleheart Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Boarder on Feminism? Feminism when represented properly is wanting both men and women to be equal, unlike TV and such we're not about running around with female symbols as our weapons and masks stealing all the Susan B Anthony coins, I promise.Unfortunately those are the ones who get all the media attention because sensationalism. Doesn't exactly make things easier for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 My disappointment that nobody got my PPG reference intensifies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princebluemoon1 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 reading that and reading stuff on tumblr are utterly shedding completely different tones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkleheart Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Yeah, tumblr seems to attract a ton of the crazy ones. Which of course are the ones everyone links to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankT Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think this is an even bigger problem than we perceive it, actually. I just... wish we could do something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterG Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Sexists exist in every aspect, not just MLP:FiM.That's what I see in every last anti-brony Tumblr post: we're all "sexists" (meaning, they generalize us as them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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