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JanAnimations Hit with C&D from Hasbro

Duskfall

By Duskfall
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Duskfall Crazy Oatmeal

Duskfall

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Well, like the title says, the majority of ShadyVox' work was removed. I'll be honest though, I don't know what to think of this, nor do I understand the copyright and trademark laws regarding this. In any case, I think some discussion on this could be educating. Post below if you have anything to offer.

EqD Post: http://www.equestriadaily.com/2014/03/jan-animations-button-mash-picture.html

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rjrgmc28 C-Mark Crusader

rjrgmc28

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While I don't want to get into full details on what happened after seeing the EQD article due to having blown a emotional fuse and almost flying off the handle as they would say, but this is an issue that keeps creeping up time and time again. First we have seen it with Fighting is Magic last year and now this mess and as always, the fans are up in arms.

Now while I don't want to get involved on how this came to be nor I take any sides on this issue,in my opinion the whole copyright and trademark system, not only in Australia, but also worldwide in general is simply put, broken, tired, outdated and in need of a major overhaul. There has to be a fair solution which benefits both parties to prevent things like this from happening again.

If it means having to set up some guidelines on how fan works are made (e.g. for noncommercial use, not for profit etc) so fans don't end up falling in the same trap, then it might be a fair compromise in the long run.

As a member of the Australian branch of the Pirate Party, this is one of the issues that has currently on the agenda in regards to copyright and trademark reform in Australia at present and also fair use and fair dealing of content.

I won't go on any further due to risking another fuse blow, but I'll leave this tweet that I made earlier to sum up my feelings:

"But still, this highlights the need for massive trademark and copyright reform, especially for fandoms like the brony community."

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kunio18 20% Cooler

kunio18

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i seriously cant believe this!!! didn't jan animations have a thing with hasbro in order to make lets go an meet the bronies video for the documentary?,,,seriously this is this worst news ever, i loved jan he has been around for ever,

once again, this is why we cant have nice things,,, tis a sad day

just in case you want this listen to this song again before it goes forever

http://youtu.be/yjlr2y32tQY

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Ashton Wonderbolt

Ashton

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I'm not a lawyer, but I have some knoledge of IP (intalectual property) law, and to say the least, it's a mess in the USA. The laws were written to try and benefiet all sides, they are some of the few that do seem to have some good intent, but the way they are implimented is severely broken. Things like "excessive unauthorized use" can case IP to fall into the public domain and hasbro is at risk of losing the entire franchsise.

But, hasbro is trying to do its best to leave as much stuff up as possible. The reason it looks so bad is the people they go after are high-profile content creators. The more 'show like' that the work is, the more dangerous it is because it can c ause confusion among fans and cause hasbro to lose control of it's IP (stupid as that sounds)

However, there is also something to note: they went after a contraversial contrent creator. Most people here may not remember it, but there was a huge stick a while back over supposedly buttonmash and his mother having an... inapropriate relationship... I think that may be what caused HB to go after them --- hasbro is trying to play it safe and only take down what already has left a bad taste in fans mouths.

I dont understand the blind panic and rage. Yes it's a shame, JAS was very good and did some amazing work, but this isn't the first time this has happened. It's not like hasbro is attacking every brony who's put up a single image based on the show. While I do not like what's going on, I can appreciate that hasbro isn't just mass-mailing C&D letters to everything pony-related. (even if it is just to keep their cash cow alive)

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RarityDash Alicorn

RarityDash

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yeah, Hasbro owns the property. They have every right in the world to protect it, and if they want to have the property stay their own, sometimes they have to. This is just the reality anyone who makes fanworks has to face.

I really don't get why the fandom feels the need to explode every time it happens. it's inevitable and it's how things work. It's unfortunate for the creators of fanworks, sure, but it's also something they should be entirely prepared for from the onset.

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Ashton Wonderbolt

Ashton

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IP law was written with too heavy of a hand to the consumers. A friend asked me "why didnt hasbro just come to an agreement with JAS instead of shutting them down?" I'm sure a lot of others have wondered this too - a lot of other C&D orders are a lot more obvious, the much missed "fighting is magic" can be understood because it *was* a fighting game, which does not fit in well with the g-rated series. But JAS's works were not that contraversial.

Because IP law says they cant. If hasbro acknledges infringement and works *with* the infronger, then the associated property can be lost to the public domain.

Yes, this is a very stupid twist of the law. It was meant to protect fans of the more non-challant companies who would just let an IP go idle and if it got a cult following, then the company would revive it, claim all IP rights and force everyone to come to them for new content. Unfortunately it also prevents a lot of good things like JAS and hasbro comming to an agreement to still produce animation within certain guidelines.

This is sadly the fact for nearly everything, if HB knows about it and does not act negativly, they risk the loss of their IP. You really should be glad they're doing as little as they are and feel sorry for the marketing/law departments because they are taking a lot of heat over soemthing they have no choice in doing thanks to poorly written laws.

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FrankT 20% Cooler

FrankT

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However, there is also something to note: they went after a contraversial contrent creator. Most people here may not remember it, but there was a huge stick a while back over supposedly buttonmash and his mother having an... inapropriate relationship... I think that may be what caused HB to go after them --- hasbro is trying to play it safe and only take down what already has left a bad taste in fans mouths.

You have a point. Alright - Bottom Smash no longer exists! Hasbro can slam a lawsuit down on Tierwhat for all I care!! But if I can't even watch any of the episodes whenever I please, I can't function as an associate to the Bronies!

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SteelEagle Alicorn

SteelEagle

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However, there is also something to note: they went after a contraversial contrent creator. Most people here may not remember it, but there was a huge stick a while back over supposedly buttonmash and his mother having an... inapropriate relationship... I think that may be what caused HB to go after them --- hasbro is trying to play it safe and only take down what already has left a bad taste in fans mouths.

Doubt that. You can find plenty of video content involving ponies that is highly inappropriate and unlike Button Mash,where the inappropriate side has nothing to do with the established content but just the fanon reaction to it, their content is on its head highly inappropriate. Under this belief, you would see leagues more being taken down. You don't, so I don't see this as a possible cause.

IIRC, they were selling shirts/someone was profiting. That is a red flag. More importantly though, most big corporations don't have a great communication structure between legal and creative departments. Bronies by and large deal with those at Hasbro who are involved in Creative. When Legal gets a whiff of something- such as Jan's Animations, Fighting is Magic, etc,- they take action as they believe is appropriate to defend their legal copyrights and trademarks. Sad but true: Communication is why the fandom is as great as it is and why C&D's are as maddening as they are in their randomness.

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Ashton Wonderbolt

Ashton

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But if I can't even watch any of the episodes whenever I please, I can't function as an associate to the Bronies!

So we've reached the point of just trollish whining now...

While I agree it would be nice for hasbro to release an official way to watch the series on-demand without waiting months for it to appear (and in some countries never show up) I should point out that there are plenty of alternatives. I have yet to miss an episode due to lack of source, anyone who cant find an unofficial means simply has not tried hard enough.

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Ashton Wonderbolt

Ashton

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Doubt that. You can find plenty of video content involving ponies that is highly inappropriate and unlike Button Mash,where the inappropriate side has nothing to do with the established content but just the fanon reaction to it, their content is on its head highly inappropriate. Under this belief, you would see leagues more being taken down. You don't, so I don't see this as a possible cause.

IIRC, they were selling shirts/someone was profiting. That is a red flag. More importantly though, most big corporations don't have a great communication structure between legal and creative departments. Bronies by and large deal with those at Hasbro who are involved in Creative. When Legal gets a whiff of something- such as Jan's Animations, Fighting is Magic, etc,- they take action as they believe is appropriate to defend their legal copyrights and trademarks. Sad but true: Communication is why the fandom is as great as it is and why C&D's are as maddening as they are in their randomness.

The caveat is that it has to be "show quality" _and_ "inapropriate" A lot of inapropriate content has gone to far into left field it's not protected by "Parody rights" under "Fair Use" and cant be touched.

Yes, the whole "making money off somone else's work" is a problem, and while I think there should be a way to negociate (i.e. hasbro take 5% of profits or something) there's not much that can be done.

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SteelEagle Alicorn

SteelEagle

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The caveat is that it has to be "show quality" _and_ "inapropriate" A lot of inapropriate content has gone to far into left field it's not protected by "Parody rights" under "Fair Use" and cant be touched.

Yes, the whole "making money off somone else's work" is a problem, and while I think there should be a way to negociate (i.e. hasbro take 5% of profits or something) there's not much that can be done.

Button's Adventures also falls under Fair Use and parody: The quality of the work and the style actually doesn't stop that from being true. Jan's Animations could fight and would win by most analysis, but it isn't a fight worth having since Jan doesn't want to hurt his/her chances to work with Hasbro in a more official capacity at some point. The content he created was perfectly appropriate and there are plenty of show-style content that is not appropriate anywhere from tumblr to YouTube that if Hasbro was attacking due to inappropriate fan response would get taken down. The fan response to the appropriate content Jan Animations made does not have *anything* to do with this. None at all.

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FrankT 20% Cooler

FrankT

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So we've reached the point of just trollish whining now...

While I agree it would be nice for hasbro to release an official way to watch the series on-demand without waiting months for it to appear (and in some countries never show up) I should point out that there are plenty of alternatives. I have yet to miss an episode due to lack of source, anyone who cant find an unofficial means simply has not tried hard enough.

Are you calling me a troll now?

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Ashton Wonderbolt

Ashton

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...doesn't anyone resist a C&D?

Yes, there have been many high profile cases where this has happened. However, if you resist you will end up in court 99% of the time, which, even if you win, often means lost wages, cost of representation, travel expenses, etc. --- and to begin with you have to be able to prove that you were in the right, in genneral it's not worth the effort usually.

Button's Adventures also falls under Fair Use and parody: The quality of the work and the style actually doesn't stop that from being true. Jan's Animations could fight and would win by most analysis, but it isn't a fight worth having since Jan doesn't want to hurt his/her chances to work with Hasbro in a more official capacity at some point. The content he created was perfectly appropriate and there are plenty of show-style content that is not appropriate anywhere from tumblr to YouTube that if Hasbro was attacking due to inappropriate fan response would get taken down. The fan response to the appropriate content Jan Animations made does not have *anything* to do with this. None at all.

-_- yeah, I try to use a vague association to calm a panic so you have to point it out and shoot it down so people have more reason to panic... great...

And what I saw actually wasn't far enough in parody to be protected, in fact unless I missed something 90% of it could have appeared in the show and felt right at home. (though as I said I might have missed soemthing)

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