Transformation spells?

[korok132]

I had a thought for a character: Basically, a unicorn that specialized in transformation magic, like changing a squirrel into a rat or something. Would that kind of transformation magic be allowed? And would I be allowed to have him use it on other ponies, or at least on himself? I'm not saying he'd be able to go around willy-nilly transforming people, that would obviously be OP, but what if he could, it just took a lot of effort, like Twi making Rarity's wings in the Sonic Rainboom episode?

[Ashton]

I'm not staff, but imo based off what I've seen elsewhere, *if* it's allowed, you would only be allowed to use it on other characters if their player agrees. Unfortunately this is not DND where you can force a will-save, so if they dont want you to do it your Trot-outa-luck (Though in such case you can still *try* to use it and have it fail spectacularly)

Again, this is based off other forum RPs, the rules might be different here, this is just my interpretation...

[RarityDash]

Yeah. You'll need a staff member to tell you exactly what is and isn't okay.

Personally, I think we should steer away from making unicorns with spells quite on the level of Twilight though. She's clearly supposed to be one of the most powerful unicorns Equestria has. And even she struggled to make wings for Rarity. That makes me think fully transforming things might be a little much.

[JasonTheHuman]

It's been shown in "The Best Night Ever" that transformation spells are possible - Twilight turned an apple into a (very fancy and elaborate) carriage and mice into horses (different from ponies?).

I suppose that, if done well, it could be alright. Make it so that it's the pony's special talent, and they don't do much other advanced magic. And they're not constantly changing form just to be better than everypony else. Nobody likes a Trixie.

[Ashton]

And they're not constantly changing form just to be better than everypony else. Nobody likes a Trixie.

Actually if the OP wanted to be more of an antagonist (or have their pony "learn a lesson") I could see them pulling a Trixie and it working very well

[DantonDamnark]

I don't know if this helps but, there is a real life form of magic (as in myth and stuff) where the user transform themself. However, they transform themselves into animals, more often foxes, rabbits and bears.

[knight]

hmmm.....I donno about this...this opens up a whole new, unnecessary dimension of ponies. I mean....if this is allowed, whose to stop 'wereponies' and 'vampire ponies' and the like? Where does it stop? I'd say, sure, it's okay to transform a mouse into a horse, but not a pony into a mouse. If that makes sense.

But that's just my opinion. I'd definitely wait for mod input.

[DantonDamnark]

It's been shown in "The Best Night Ever" that transformation spells are possible - Twilight turned an apple into a (very fancy and elaborate) carriage and mice into horses (different from ponies?).

This could be just a gag. Like Twilight's Computer or the Party Cannon. After all, it's a reference to Cinderella.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

This could be just a gag. Like Twilight's Computer or the Party Cannon. After all, it's a reference to Cinderella.

I would say it's a little of both. However, Spike did state that Twilight had been working on the spell, plus she went over it again before she completed it. Both spells could potentially be different pony talents—transforming objects and transforming creatures. Though the scene was a gag, the spells performed in it were not.

[knight]

....that doesn't answer the question of can ponies transform other ponies. Or themselves, for that matter. Like....could you make a pony character that can transform into a putty tat on a whim?

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Thinking back, I would say transformation spells are plausible. Remember in The Cutie Mark Chronicles, Twilight Sparkle turns her parents into plants. Transformation! I'll point this topic out to the other staff though.

[Bramble Rose]

I would argue that transforming things is easier than transforming animals, and transforming animals is easier than transforming sentient creatures.

Twilight's transformation of her parents, and of spike, happened during a OHMIGOSHPOWER! moment in her childhood, demonstrating more magic than she had before or has since. I would argue that this is *not* a baseline.

Twilight's transformation of the carriage and the mice was relatively easy for her, though somewhat tricky. But only *after* she had practiced, with quite a bit of effort, to change a stick into a cane, and a rock into a tophat.

Rarity has used transformation magic on tree branches -> sculptures, and fabric -> clothes, for an *instant* instead of crafted result.

Twilight's minor transformation of Rarity was *hard*. Slightly less hard, but still an effort, was Twilight transforming Spike, Snips, and Snails to have mustaches.

Now, I would argue that someone whose specialty is transformation could easily match Twilight and Rarity on everything but the houseplant zap, even if they cannot come close to matching Twilight on anything else.

The main question I have is not 'is transformation possible?' because yes, it is.

The main question I have is ... what's their focus? Not just 'transformation', that's both too vague and too specific. WHAT about transformation? How do they use that in their life? What's their focus, what's their talent? Do they use it as a craftsman's tool, taking raw wood and 'transforming' it into tools and furniture? Do they use it as an artisan's tool, instantly creating stone into statues? Do they use it for raw materials, changing dirt into pure sand to sell to a glass-smith, or stones into jewels to sell to a clothing designer? Do they use it as a fashionista, changing a pony's natural coloration to something new? Are they a pure scholar, studying transformation in a theoretical manner?

[Skye]

Also, don't forget that even though Twilight transformed the mice into horses, they were still mouselike in much of their outward appearance, so even she didn't get it exactly right.

I would say transformation magic would be possible, but very very difficult. More likely would be to transform objects into other objects (Though maintaining it was hard, as Twilight showed where the top hat turned back into a rock when she and Spike got distracted). As it has been pointed out, this isn't like a DND style play where someone would have to roll vs save, so if someone doesn't want to be turned into something they can't, and you can't force it on them, but at the same time regulating 'how powerful' it'd be or its actual use would be very difficult and potentially Mary Sue.

If you can come up with more specific methods for what you intend to do with it, how it would work, how it would be roleplayed (And possibly some roleplay examples) we might consider it.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Twilight's transformation of her parents, and of spike, happened during a OHMIGOSHPOWER! moment in her childhood, demonstrating more magic than she had before or has since. I would argue that this is *not* a baseline.

I would say she was using more power than she was capable of then, but not now. Remember in Boast Busters, Spike said that Twilight could perform "Twenty five different types of tricks and counting." Twilight can also teleport at will (sometimes easier than others), and perform other spells like the memory spell, levitation, and the Parasprite no-eat spell. She does a lot of things a regular Unicorn could only hope to accomplish. Magic has been her life study, rather than pursuing other hobbies or interests. Being able to perform just the transformation spell is probably possible for the special talent of a Unicorn.

But, when we get into animals and transforming others, etc., we get into matters like free will. Of course, like any talent, there have to be limitations as well. As I said, I think it's totally plausible, but on what scale has yet to be determined.

[Manestream]

To distinguish whether or not its possible in the show doesnt directly equate to whether or not it should be an RPable talent/ability- its one of those things that is very close to marysue type of power. Granted, Twilight sparkle is possibly the most gifted pony outside of luna and celestia that we've seen so far- at the very least even if there are others, she is a rarity amongst a very large region of land- in that way Twi herself is a bit marysue; so average ponies that people are apping shouldn't be able to achieve the type of results that twilight can- meaning even if twilight during her most powerful moments can turn her parents into plants, and during her best efforts under control, make creepy mice-horses, transformation is likely something outside of typical unicorn grasp. Not to mention, both of these items in the show are used as gag moments, or an homage to something else. Its cute, clever, but once again not necessarily appropriate.

Transformation magic as a specialty for a pony is completely applicable. What the apper needs to understand is that they will need to provide a rationale, and slightly underpowered spectrum of ability to do so- perhaps they can change objects for a short window of time. Perhaps they can modify another pony in some small way (adding flawed butterfly wings that barely work to get their job done); and at great cost- its obviously very difficult for twi who can levitate an ursa minor AND a giant milk tank, milk cows, and send it all packing. Long story short- if someone is going to app this type of pony, they need to be ready to understand their pony will be severely limited in that ability, or it becomes marysue. Let me remind everypony of something:

Abilities dont make the pony- their flaws and how they overcome them do.

I would suggest only an experienced RP'er app a pony that has some special talent in transformation magic- and transforming whole ponies is right out. Little modifications that last for a moderate lenght of time, or medium modifications (wings) for a very limited amount of time. I would stick around the concept of a pony with that ability only being able to change things along their base material- the shape of metal or ore into something similar; but jail bars shouldnt become water, for example- or at least this would be VERY VERY VERY taxing on the pony; as changing something's entire composition is downright world-breaking.