S02EP25-6 - "A Canterlot Wedding"

[Davroth]

Remember, when Cadence started singing, she was singing about how she had been looking forward to the wedding. When Chrysalis took her place, they had already decided on a day together!

I have to disagree. It might as well have been a very close friendship, with some kind of understanding that they are meant for each other, and her comment was merely alluding to the common conception that every girl dreams about having a spectacular wedding someday. That's how I read it anyway.

The horseapples he doesn't. He has extremely close access to Celestia, who also cares very deeply for Twilight. If he had made half an effort, he could have gotten it done. Not once did he say "we decided it was prudent to wait until the last possible moment in the interests of security". Which wouldn't have made any sense anyhow.

Oh does he now? We don't know for sure that he has any kind of personal connection to the Princess. Would you ask god to deliver a letter for you?

And he did mention that his obligations made it impossible for him to notify her. And it does make sense to monitor the mail of a city that is suspected to be compromised by a possible attack.

[weesh]

I have to disagree. It might as well have been a very close friendship, with some kind of understanding that they are meant for each other, and her comment was merely alluding to the common conception that every girl dreams about having a spectacular wedding someday. That's how I read it anyway.

Alright, you've won me over. That plus Chrysalis being manipulative fits what we know pretty nicely.

Oh does he now? We don't know for sure that he has any kind of personal connection to the Princess. Would you ask god to deliver a letter for you?

And he did mention that his obligations made it impossible for him to notify her. And it does make sense to monitor the mail of a city that is suspected to be compromised by a possible attack.

Ok, you have lightened my anguish over the situation, so I don't need to respond to this. But I want to anyway:

If I got engaged, and the only way I could let my sister know about it was to have God deliver a message, I hope I would think to ask him.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

[Davroth]

Ok, you have lightened my anguish over the situation, so I don't need to respond to this. But I want to anyway:

If I got engaged, and the only way I could let my sister know about it was to have God deliver a message, I hope I would think to ask him.

Fair enough. I'd probably be too Scootaloo for that, personally. ^^

The changeling queen is positively cute compared to Ursula, though.

[elsporko]

Shining Armor may have just not realized Twilight would be that upset regarding not knowing about the wedding. Alot of her anger also seemed to be about the fact that he was marrying somebody she thought she didn't know so maybe he thought that since they were close it wasn't going to be such a big thing.

I also think Cadence just happened to be Twilight's sitter. They probably ran in the same circles, they both seem to be in the upper level's of Canterlot society. Cadence probably sat a few foals but got close to Twilight. One must wonder if sitting for Twilight helped her get closer to Shining Armor.

On the subject of Rainbow Dash, I think you are misreading her Ginger. In Rainboom her shut down stemmed from fear of failure. Moving beyond that episode look at Mysterious Mare Do Well, she feels threatened by Mare Do Well because it is stealing her thunder and she is no longer getting the same amount of praise. Then in Read it or Weep she hides her reading because she feels like it will hurt her reputation. Before Hurricane Fluttershy Dash's main motivation to do things isn't to succeed but so that she can get praise from others. She doesn't fear failure as much as she fears rejection. This ties into her general attitude. A person with low self esteem attacks others so she can feel better and other people feel worse then she does. Rainbow Dash brags because she needs other people to acknowledge her accomplishments because her self esteem was so low that she needed outside confirmation that she is good. She has gotten better in the second season but looking back you can see alot of insecurity in her actions

[Tempest Rime]

The changeling queen is positively cute compared to Ursula, though.

What do you mean "compared to Ursula"? She's cute on her own without having to compare her to the sea witch.

This is really common for animated characters who are pure white, has been for as long as I can remember. Look at Donald Duck or the shmoos, or, most prevalent, in Ducktales.

Now that is interesting. I have never noticed it before, didn't even notice it in this episode until it was pointed out. Learn something everyday, I guess.

[Davroth]

What do you mean "compared to Ursula"? She's cute on her own without having to compare her to the sea witch.

It was referring to the picture. ^^

Looked pretty much like The Little Mermaid to me.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

If Shining Armor was able to get Princess Celestia to preside over his wedding, I'm sure he could have probably gotten her to send a letter.

On the subject of Rainbow Dash, I don't think I am misreading her. I don't mean to sound like a stuck-up know-it-all, but I get the impression that many fans come from a background that is somewhat removed from that of a serious athlete. Which is to say athletes that are self-motivated, not just people who play sports because their parents said so, it is a requirement for school, or for recreation. Athletes that compete in state, national or even world events. People who go out of their way to compete don't do so because they are insecure about themselves. They may crave victory and glory and all that, and they do tend to enjoy praise and are often motivated by large crowds, but its not because they need it to cover up insecurities or a lack of self esteem.

They seek competition because the are confident.

Usually, athletes don't stop competing once they've won the gold medal, rather it is when athletes lose confidence that they tend to give up and drop out. It is to Rainbow Dash's credit that she did not. ((As ISU forward Royce White recently made a case for during this year's NCAA tournament with his own struggles with anxiety, it is frequently an irrational thing that does not relate to one's self esteem or confidence.))

In Sonic Rainboom, Rainbow Dash's fear stemmed from the idea that her expected failure to perform a sonic rainboom would make the Wonderbolts become disinclined to let her join in the future. She could fail all she wanted in practice, but when failure would interfere with her life goals, it was a problem. It was not about her self confidence, but a lack of certainty over how others would react. (As I said, a lack in others-esteem for lack of a better term) In Mysterious Mare Do Well, we're explicitly told that Rainbow Dash's level of praise seeking was uncharacteristic even for her. In Read it or Weep, her friends explicitly stated at the very beginning that they liked reading, read books themselves, and would wholeheartedly accept her if she were to read books too. That didn't change her mind one bit. It was a matter of her own misconception of reading being uncool not mixing with her own perception of herself. I think what we're seeing is more of a concern about others than a concern about the self. She doesn't like to have to explain herself or justify her actions, she wants other ponies to know what she perceives to be the truth.

That being said, I could definitely see a relationship between Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash, or people with similar personalities. Rainbow Dash is quick to congratulate success, but she's not the mare to turn to if you want comfort after a failure. She leads by example, laying out the objective plainly and expecting others to do their part in reaching it. Fluttershy doesn't like to step outside her comfort zone (and Rainbow Dash gets annoyed when she has to prod) but when something falls inside her comfort zone, she's quite capable of dealing with the problem without any help at all.

If Rainbow Dash's down time could overlap with Fluttershy's comfort zone, then its not hard to see a long term companionship. Besides, in long term relationships, people often say that the best thing is just in having someone who is simply there. Someone comfortable and familiar.

Aaaanyway.... I'm going to stop that wall of text because I had another wall of text that was bugging me this morning at work that I want to get to.

I know a lot of people thought that Princess Celestia's little speech about Twilight's lesson was a little bit of a letdown. She didn't apologize or anything. But I was wondering if there isn't more to the lesson than meets the eye. I suspect that whole bit about trusting your instincts might be a lesson on using caution in relationships. Its not uncommon for people to find that after they reach a different level in a relationship (Like getting married especially) that their partner's personality goes through a dramatic change. My old Psychology prof used to say "Go into a relationship with both eyes open, but stay in a relationship with eyes half closed." (roughly) And basically what he meant was to look out for warning signs and red flags, and if you're not sure about something don't get pressured into anything. But once you've made a commitment, its best to not sweat the small stuff too.

So perhaps there is a lesson in there about not jumping headlong into what might be a bad relationship?

[weesh]

I know a lot of people thought that Princess Celestia's little speech about Twilight's lesson was a little bit of a letdown. She didn't apologize or anything. But I was wondering if there isn't more to the lesson than meets the eye. I suspect that whole bit about trusting your instincts might be a lesson on using caution in relationships. Its not uncommon for people to find that after they reach a different level in a relationship (Like getting married especially) that their partner's personality goes through a dramatic change. My old Psychology prof used to say "Go into a relationship with both eyes open, but stay in a relationship with eyes half closed." (roughly) And basically what he meant was to look out for warning signs and red flags, and if you're not sure about something don't get pressured into anything. But once you've made a commitment, its best to not sweat the small stuff too.

So perhaps there is a lesson in there about not jumping headlong into what might be a bad relationship?

I am confused. Are you talking about the "you have a lot to think about" after Twilight burst into the rehearsal?

[weesh]

BBBFF forever is an amazing song, and I am certain that I have heard it at least 100 times by this point. One thing bugged me the first time, and has been grating ever since.

"We never had a single fight"

Really? Is that true of any deep relationship? My sister and I fought everyday for much of our childhood. The cool thing is that we almost always resolved our differences the same day. I remember playing, fighting, making up, playing, fighting, making up...multiple times...within a period of hours.

Lack of conflict is not indicative of a strong relationship. It is indicative of shallowness.

[Davroth]

Really? Is that true of any deep relationship? My sister and I fought everyday for much of our childhood. The cool thing is that we almost always resolved our differences the same day. I remember playing, fighting, making up, playing, fighting, making up...multiple times...within a period of hours.

Lack of conflict is not indicative of a strong relationship. It is indicative of shallowness.

It might be indicative of shallowness, but not really proof of anything. If you befriend people who are relatively similar to yourself, there usually is little reason for fights. (Obviously there are exceptions)

[flutterscotch]

I think fight is subjective. I look back on my childhood and pretty much had nothing that rated beyond a minor squabble when my brother and I were little. Twilight could have been looking at her childhood through rose-tinted glasses, much like everyone else does.

[Davroth]

I'd chalk it up to "dumbing it down for the kids". ^^

[weesh]

It might be indicative of shallowness, but not really proof of anything.

I'd agree to that. It feel weird and out of place in the song. Partly because there were so many other good points in the song.

Twilight could have been looking at her childhood through rose-tinted glasses, much like everyone else does.

While it makes sense that she wouldn't remember the bad times, I don't like the example it sets.

I'd chalk it up to "dumbing it down for the kids". ^^

Isn't that kind of a dangerous thing to teach kids? People never fight with their best friends? Nevermind. I just remembered the rest of the episode. And then the rest of the show.

[Bramble Rose]

On the subject of Rainbow Dash, I don't think I am misreading her. I don't mean to sound like a stuck-up know-it-all, but I get the impression that many fans come from a background that is somewhat removed from that of a serious athlete. Which is to say athletes that are self-motivated, not just people who play sports because their parents said so, it is a requirement for school, or for recreation. Athletes that compete in state, national or even world events. People who go out of their way to compete don't do so because they are insecure about themselves. They may crave victory and glory and all that, and they do tend to enjoy praise and are often motivated by large crowds, but its not because they need it to cover up insecurities or a lack of self esteem.

I wouldn't pretend to say anything about 'all athletes', but Rainbow Dash is not 'all athletes'. Also, please note - Dash *doesn't* compete. She's *not* a professional athlete. She is a weather pony with a dream of being an athlete... and competes with non-athletes. The only time she's ever competed is for the 'Best Young Flier' competition, as far as we've seen.

Plus, looking only at Rainbow Dash and not at a 'class of athletes' that have a superficial resemblence to Rainbow Dash ...

It's not just her fear during the Best Young Flier competition - if you notice, whenever she's challenged - especially by Applejack - she always has this brief "Oh ponyfeathers" expression before she firms up and puffs out her chest and acts big and tough. She frequently has this expression on her face like she's nervous, and then quick covers it up.

[Tempest Rime]

I actually really hated BBBFF. Probably the worst song of the season. This Day Aria was good enough to overlook it, but I still really dislike it.

Edit- also, I know what you were talking about Davroth, I was just teasing. And I do love Chrysalis, she nails both the creepy and cute look at the same time.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Edit- also, I know what you were talking about Davroth, I was just teasing. And I do love Chrysalis, she nails both the creepy and cute look at the same time.

So did evil Cadence.

[OccupyEquestria]

I actually really hated BBBFF. Probably the worst song of the season.

Blasphemy! As a big brother, I thought it downright tearful.

[Tempest Rime]

Blasphemy! As a big brother, I thought it downright tearful.

I am one too, but if my sister sang a song like that about me I'd be kinda creeped out.

[weesh]

As a big brother, I thought it downright tearful.

I felt the same. I am also very far away from my sister. It is the first MLP song that I have had strong feelings about. Wait, strong GOOD feelings about.

[Quickfire]

Do you think they are going to make a season 3?

[Quickfire]

I am Big brother to 8 siblings and I thought it was cute!

[starswirlthebearded]

I'm a younger brother and felt that the song had no connection between me or my brother what so ever. Still thought it was a nice song, but I never had such a relationship with my brother. Most of what I learned I learned from my father. My brother wasn't much of a role model, let alone friend.

Oh, I should note that my brother also lives far away and we don't really talk much if at all. My mother thinks its sad, but again, I never was very close with him to begin with. The most we did together was play sports and the occasional board game, but that was nothing much since we each did our own things.

[Quickfire]

I'm a younger brother and felt that the song had no connection between me or my brother what so ever. Still thought it was a nice song, but I never had such a relationship with my brother. Most of what I learned I learned from my father. My brother wasn't much of a role model, let alone friend.

Oh, I should note that my brother also lives far away and we don't really talk much if at all. My mother thinks its sad, but again, I never was very close with him to begin with. The most we did together was play sports and the occasional board game, but that was nothing much since we each did our own things.

That's true I don't really think of my brother as a role model. I do think of my dad as a role model tho

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Fear isn't always about what you think is going to happen, its about what you can imagine happening. (probability not being taken into account) People don't have to think that aliens or monsters are actually going to jump out of the shadows in order for scary movies to be scary. (also, professional athletes tend to compete for money, so I'm not really counting them anyway)

You asked me to take a look, so I did. I only found one instance where she made a worried expression after being challenged, and numerous instances where she was challenged and was entirely confident, among other things.

• Applebuck Season: She has no problem with practicing a new and untested trick in the middle of town, or advertising it to a bunch of strangers, and shows only mild annoyance when it doesn't work out.

• Griffin the Brush-Off: Challenged to a race by Gilda, her eyes light up with glee at the prospect.

• Boast Busters: Challenges Trixie (who just humiliated Applejack moments before) in front of a huge crowd. After being shown up, she demonstrates some annoyance, but is happy and excited only moments later, still hanging out in the crowd.

• Dragonshy: Fails to defeat the dragon, still pleased with herself for trying.

• Bridle Gossip: First pony to suggest confronting Zecora to get a cure, even though she can't fly straight.

• Call of the Cutie: "Why wait for something to happen when you can make it happen?" Developed a cutie mark strategy involving trying as many different things as possible in as short a time as possible without concern for the inevitable failure that many of them will bring.

• Fall Weather Friends: She expected to lose the barrel weave, but still went anyway and ran with an expression of confidence on her face. No expression but confidence before the bronco buck. Confused expression instead of worried expression during the lasso event, and a curious expression wondering about her results. Smiles prior to and outright boasting after her bale throw. Goes from exerting to gloating in a frame when she starts using her wings during the push-ups. The long jump is the only other event where she shows any worry at all. When Applejack challenges her to the Running of the Leaves, she never has a worried expression even for a frame. "No wings? No problem!" is her confident reply. She also shows no worry while waiting at the starting line (She enters the scene boasting confidently) though overall that might have more to do with her making fun of Twilight. "I could win this race with both wings tied behind my back!" (I recommend watching it again, its a fun episode.)

• Suited for Success: Didn't really care too much about how her dress looked, just that she thought it could be cooler.

• The Cutie Mark Chronicles: When challenged, she doesn't miss a beat before confidently saying "what do you have in mind?" unconcerned about any challenge they might choose, and is nothing but smug and smiles while standing at the starting line.

• The Best Night Ever: When the statue starts falling over, she immediately goes to a happy expression and proclaims "this is my chance!"

• May the Best Pet Win: Mentions that she is supposed to win, but only starts panicking about the prospect of being stuck there forever.

• Mysterious Mare Do Well: Eh, I only watched that one once... probably not going to watch it again. (I don't have any of the episodes past Baby Cakes, so I can't do a frame-by-frame expression analysis on any of those.)

As for the lesson, I was referring to Celestia's "Learning to trust your instincts is a very valuable lesson to learn." (They sure gave her a few mouthfuls of lines at the end there, but Nicole Oliver delivered em like a champ anyway.) There were people who were scratching their heads and saying that it was hypocritical to have scolded Twilight in one moment and then Praised her in the next.

Also: I never had that kind of a relationship with my older brother, but I did have a best friend who moved away when I was younger, and I kind of felt that way back then.