S02EP15 - "The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000"

[weesh]

-Big Mac and Dash running full tilt on the press

Was anyone else thinking: "Jane! Stop this crazy thing!" when Dash got off?

[Hippo]

WTF Apple family? How can you be so unsavvy about a business that rolls in the dough and is responsible for keeping you afloat? How many farms in the world have no need to hire seasonal workers? Couldn't you come up with some sort of voucher system, or only sell when you have enough of a back up supply? How about limit one per customer?! ANYTHING to keep your cutomers happy!

And furthermore, you let a bunch of showsmen BULLY you into a dangerous bet! And AFTER you lost the competition, and nearly lost in important source of income, Applejack had the gall to claim she learned nothing? You learned nothing because you are BLIND! Things ended well, so you are going to ignore the red flags, the warning lights and sirens that were blazing around you? Most people learn form their close calls and near misses, but you just blew them off! Shame on you all!

I didn't see it from that point of view.

Take this for example...

We are a part of this pony fandom. It's nuts. Fans are excited about this show. And just like any fandom, they can sometimes get out of control. We are upset when they have a week without a new episode. We explode when Derpy is canonized in show. And yet, several fans are still upset over Derpy's voice or personification. Suited For Success' first lesson was that when you try to please everypony, you often end up pleasing nopony. So having the same lesson twice wouldn't make much sense. This lesson had shown itself other times in the show too.

Let's say the show makers decided to do us all a great fanservice and ship Derpy with somepony in the show. Or better yet, put in a same sex relationship. The fandom would probably melt in it's own confused rage. Some would be happy, but others would be so torn apart by it that it may keep them from being interested in fanservice again, or for that matter, the show at all.

A lot of emotional focus was put on RD in this episode to help illustrate the frustrating customer side of it. But I don't know how that can be too much of AJ's problem. She needs to do what she can do best, which is lots of hard work. The only thing that I think would have been fair would have limited it to one drink per person. But maybe Pinkie was the only one who got away with it because she's Pinkie. AJ could've done the realistic thing and jacked up the price to lower demand, but I don't think she wants to take advantage of Ponyville that way. Ponies were camped out in front of the stand. There's not much Applejack can do about that. If I commit loitering because I'm waiting in line overnight at the movie theater, Is that the movie theater's fault? Is it the movie industry's fault? No, I suppose it's Goerge Lucas's fault.

The main moral was that hard work and integrity will always be rewarded, even if you don't 'win,' which IMO wasn't really mentioned enough. But AJ already knew that. Her and Granny were preaching it the whole time. And when RD tried to get the Apples to cheat, AJ reminded her of their philosophy. Perhaps Rainbow Dash, or even Apple Bloom should have written the letter to prove that they had learned something. Don't blame AJ for knowing it all. How many episodes have there been where Spike knew what the lesson was before Twilight did? Imagine what Spike's letter to the Princess of what he learned would have been like in "Boast Busters," "Lesson Zero," "Best Night Ever". It would have been like this:

@:25

[weesh]

I didn't see it from that point of view...

I do not disagree with much of what you said here. On the surface, much of what happened in the episode is satisfying.

My point is the terribly irrisponsible risks that were taken and completely overshadowed by a suddenly confidant AJ. She claims she learned nothing and knew it all along, but that is bull. She was worried for much of the episode, and was resigned to closing the farm all the way up to the point that Flim and Flam threw away their advantage in the home stretch.

Even when I worked for <big oil company with a bad reputation>, an accident that created a "near miss" was enough to inspire changes to protect the workers. Fools learn from disaster. Wise people learn not just from disaster, but also from the warning signs of disaster, and the disaster that missed you by a hair's bredth. The idea that nothing was wrong at the end of the episode was shocking and irresponsible to the n-th degree. The volume of fulishness is second only to the hubris displayed by Granny, AJ and AB.

Furthermore, the Apples are businessmen, and have a great deal of experience. If one of their products perpetually casues angst among their consumers, then they are setting themselves up for someone to muscle in on their business. "If you don't take care of the customer, someone else will". IT IS THEIR FAULT THAT THIS CONFLICT AROSE. They had the demand, and the resources to pull off the supply, but they never acted on it until the farm was at stake. That was waiting way too long.

[starswirlthebearded]

I do not disagree with much of what you said here. On the surface, much of what happened in the episode is satisfying.

My point is the terribly irrisponsible risks that were taken and completely overshadowed by a suddenly confidant AJ. She claims she learned nothing and knew it all along, but that is bull. She was worried for much of the episode, and was resigned to closing the farm all the way up to the point that Flim and Flam threw away their advantage in the home stretch.

Even when I worked for , an accident that created a "near miss" was enough to inspire changes to protect the workers. Fools learn from disaster. Wise people learn not just from disaster, but also from the warning signs of disaster, and the disaster that missed you by a hair's bredth. The idea that nothing was wrong at the end of the episode was shocking and irresponsible to the n-th degree. The volume of fulishness is second only to the hubris displayed by Granny, AJ and AB.

Furthermore, the Apples are businessmen, and have a great deal of experience. If one of their products perpetually casues angst among their consumers, then they are setting themselves up for someone to muscle in on their business. "If you don't take care of the customer, someone else will". IT IS THEIR FAULT THAT THIS CONFLICT AROSE. They had the demand, and the resources to pull off the supply, but they never acted on it until the farm was at stake. That was waiting way too long.

Perhaps this was the first year that they had that close knit friends that were willing to help them and it never occurred to them to ask. I could so see a return down the line where they go to twilight and the gang to help in such a situation or even the next year.

If money was that tight with them they perhaps couldn't afford to hire extra help.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Its like my old economics teacher always used to say. There's a difference between theory and reality. Just because you know something is true, doesn't always mean that it will apply in a perfect textbook manner in every circumstance. And sometimes even if you know something is right, it is nice to have additional proof to confirm it.

Applejack might have been worried during the competition because she didn't have a full understanding of who the Flim Flam brothers were, she had every reason to believe that they were on the level, but after it became obvious that they were willing to sacrifice their integrity to win, it lined up with what she already knew. If they'd won by sacrificing their integrity and still pulled off the hostile takeover, then she might have learned something.

And yes, the Apple family had a hoof in this mess, but assuming that they had no good reason to only make so many barrels a day is just that, an assumption. Unless they were planning on exploiting AJ's friends as slave labor, every extra hoof cuts into what they need to make it through the winter. They pushed themselves extra hard due to the competition, and thats one of the good things that competition does, but you can't push yourself to the limit all the time without wearing out.

[Hippo]

LOL. Equestrian economics is different. Perhaps if RD wanted a cup of cider, she would help the Apples make it in the first place.

More realistically, I have seen and even worked for family owned businesses that was very weary of hiring non-family staff. It usually ends bad when the family is unwilling to let non-family hands or hoofs touch their product system. Its almost like the traditional vs. change approach. For the most part, tradition needs to yield a good portion to the interest of making things better. However, an entire tradition collapse has ruined businesses in the past, and even changed some friendly small town businesses into massive conglomerate monopolies. In the show, the sacredness of the Apple farm has yet to show its worth.

I think more than the issues of bad business practices, my main problem with the episode is the reality that the Ponyvillians would not let two Flimflams takeover the farm that began the city in the first place. Quite frankly, I'm surprised the Mayor even let this competition take place. BAD MAYOR! Applejack should be mayor.

[RarityDash]

I think more than the issues of bad business practices, my main problem with the episode is the reality that the Ponyvillians would not let two Flimflams takeover the farm that began the city in the first place. Quite frankly, I'm surprised the Mayor even let this competition take place. BAD MAYOR! Applejack should be mayor.

Every time she appears it becomes more apparent that the Mayor kind of sucks at her job. Consistently poor judgement on her part. I think it's kind of amusing actually. I'd actually like to see an episode focused on her and public opinion in Ponyville at some point. Could make for a fun plot.

[QuickLime]

I dont understand this nonsense about it being Alchoholic? Cider here is fresh pressed apples that is delicious and sold only in the fall...

NO alchohol whatsoever..

[Hippo]

I dont understand this nonsense about it being Alchoholic? Cider here is fresh pressed apples that is delicious and sold only in the fall...

NO alchohol whatsoever..

I would have to disagree since the mugs in the episode almost hint at the possibility. Plus, supposedly in European countries, most apple cider is alcoholic.

In the show, it's immature to say that it is 100% an alcoholic beverage. But the joke of apple cider being a spiked drink isn't that hard to understand.

[QuickLime]

I would have to disagree since the mugs in the episode almost hint at the possibility. Plus, supposedly in European countries, most apple cider is alcoholic.

In the show, it's immature to say that it is 100% an alcoholic beverage. But the joke of apple cider being a spiked drink isn't that hard to understand.

But all they did was press apples and put them in barrels! They didn't ferment them or anything, it's obvious all their cider was is fresh squeezed perfect apples...

EXACTLY like they make it here.

[Dessa]

Hate to burst everypony's bubble, but it couldn't have been hard cider, because it did not ferment. All of the apples put in were fresh, and it was served fresh.

[starswirlthebearded]

I would have to disagree since the mugs in the episode almost hint at the possibility. Plus, supposedly in European countries, most apple cider is alcoholic.

In the show, it's immature to say that it is 100% an alcoholic beverage. But the joke of apple cider being a spiked drink isn't that hard to understand.

But it isn't the same in America nor Canada to my knowledge. Though the knowledge of cider being possibly alcoholic is there for most people, it isn't the inclination to assume it in this instance.

Though they did allude to it being addictive. I mean, just LOOK at that queue.

Man the Apple family makes some really addictive products... First the Zap Apple Jam and now this? You know what? Screw the alcohol, they put straight up drugs in their product to build dependence!

[RarityDash]

The cider does look a lot more like the alcoholic variety. I'm around both a lot, and the color and frothiness definitely more resemble hard cider than sweet cider.

Even if it's not supposed to be alcoholic, I think it might at least be a visual gag.

[Hippo]

I agree its not alcoholic in the show. I just think that most of the jokes about it being alcoholic is just a fan interpretation. I've seen drinks in other cartoons where it looked like beer. It was served like beer. It was an emotional drink like beer. But it wasn't beer.

The alcohilic cider joke for me is along the same lines as Spike asking for another donut and Pony Joe suggesting that he has had to much, only to have Spike slam his claws down demanding another donut. The only thing that was missing was him saying, "I'll tell you when I've had enough."

It's just a joke people.

[Tenkan]

Rewatching it, I found the Flim Flam brothers very entertaining.

[Motion Paradox]

I agree, I've never had either kind of cider but all things considered it probably is non-alchoholic (except perhaps Berry Punch's glass), come to think of it, it's a tad ironic that so many jokes have been made regarding the cider but nopony's pointed out that the episode was focused on a Pony named after an alchoholic beverage

But I wouldn't be surprised if the main reason why they kept running out was that they only had four Ponies doing everything and even when they could have asked for help it didn't occur to them to do so, if you think of the Applebuck Season episode Applejack literally had to over work herself to point of collapsing before she admitted that she needed help so it does make sense that she didn't think to ask for help with making cider (even though Applejack learnt her lesson from Applebuck season she still had to have help offered instead of asking from the start if anypony wanted to volunteer some time to help them make sure everyone could have cider each day) and since they were making it everyday they didn't have enough time to make sure that everypony could get some. Saying that they could have had the Ponies who didn't get any cider on the first day each take a number so they could be served in order the next day and after all those Ponies had been served the ones that already had some could buy what was left with the ones who were left after they sold out taking numbers and so on

But looking back at "The Last Roundup" I have to wonder if maybe this had something to do with why Rainbow Dash didn't turn back

[Snowshoe]

I dont understand this nonsense about it being Alchoholic? Cider here is fresh pressed apples that is delicious and sold only in the fall...

NO alchohol whatsoever..

I would have to disagree since the mugs in the episode almost hint at the possibility. Plus, supposedly in European countries, most apple cider is alcoholic.

In the show, it's immature to say that it is 100% an alcoholic beverage. But the joke of apple cider being a spiked drink isn't that hard to understand.

But all they did was press apples and put them in barrels! They didn't ferment them or anything, it's obvious all their cider was is fresh squeezed perfect apples...

EXACTLY like they make it here.

Hate to burst everypony's bubble, but it couldn't have been hard cider, because it did not ferment. All of the apples put in were fresh, and it was served fresh.

It's not actually hard cider, but in my opinion there was a slight joke at it being alcoholic. Again, something only we can get through sublte jokes: the frothiness of the cider, the beer stein-esque mugs, the looks on pony's faces as they drink, etc. Sure, it probably wasn't written in the script as hard cider, but I'm sure it must have been an in-joke at some point. Remember MLP:FiM is filled with these kinds of things which only an adult might piece together and get a chuckle at.

To me, this comes down to two tropes:

http://tvtropes.org/...rapPastTheRadar (this article even has an MLP page)

http://tvtropes.org/...othyMugsOfWater

[Rosewind]

Wow, at this alcohol debate. Didn't you ponies hear? Hasbro is releasing its My Little Cider Press.

The mugs are playing up the whole alcohol concept, but it's really innocent enough. Does it matter? I don't foresee any kids taking up a life of hard cider drinking after watching this episode.

Why do the fans of this series seem so up in arms lately? Last week it was Derpy, this week it's alcohol. Do we need to question how the series presents itself? Hasbro inspects every episode, and would not approve it if they picked up any negatives that might hurt the property. We should be the ones enjoying the fact that it's presenting itself in a way we can enjoy it without patronizing us with a "kids only" mentality (e.g. turning those big awesome cider mugs into sippy cups. Yeeeeah!).

Hold on, I'm doing some chimney think. Here goes:

Some of us are afraid that FiM is starting to cater to our tastes as older fans, which might fundamentally change one of our reasons for liking it. Now discuss.

[Snowshoe]

Some of us are afraid that FiM is starting to cater to our tastes as older fans, which might fundamentally change one of our reasons for liking it. Now discuss.

On the alcohol thing, for me its just a minor injoke. If others see it differently so be it. It's not really a debate for me, I just find it an amusing idea.

This line though..I don't think they will. They know their target audience and Hasbro makes sure of that. While yes there are subtle references that they know we're here (Derpy talking and being named, Derpy appearing constantly, Doctor Whooves, Lyra and the other BG ponies making appearances, pop culture references, etc), I doubt it'll go further than that.

[Note: a fundamental reason I watch this show is because it has characterization and writing quality reminiscent of old 90s cartoons I grew up on and miss dearly, so even if the references got more obvious so long as they kept that I'd be fine.]

[Hippo]

Some of us are afraid that FiM is starting to cater to our tastes as older fans, which might fundamentally change one of our reasons for liking it. Now discuss.

I would agree that this could be a valid concern. But honestly, it's not for me to decide, so I'd rather not worry about. So far, season 2 has been really enjoyable, even without the fan-service. Quite honestly, there hasn't been that much fan-service yet. The last two have a few, but for the most part, these services are almost not noticeable unless you're inside the fandom. Unless you knew about

, there's no way you've tied it to the hourglass pony wearing a tie.

The only thing I can do as a fan is shut up and enjoy the show. The show makers haven't really let me down yet. Now, for some, this may not be the case.

[brianblackberry]

I would agree that this could be a valid concern. But honestly, it's not for me to decide, so I'd rather not worry about. So far, season 2 has been really enjoyable, even without the fan-service. Quite honestly, there hasn't been that much fan-service yet. The last two have a few, but for the most part, these services are almost not noticeable unless you're inside the fandom. Unless you knew about

, there's no way you've tied it to the hourglass pony wearing a tie.

The only thing I can do as a fan is shut up and enjoy the show. The show makers haven't really let me down yet. Now, for some, this may not be the case.

I would say it isn't even that video, rather just the fact the 10th doctor, which the pony is based off of as a joke from the beginning, also always wore a tie. Very likely they never seen that video but instead though "hey our David Tennant Doctor Who pony should have a tie, because David Tennant always wore one as the Doctor!" Thus *poof* one of the animators decide to have some fun. be happy they get to be that openly creative.

[Hippo]

I would say it isn't even that video, rather just the fact the 10th doctor, which the pony is based off of as a joke from the beginning, also always wore a tie. Very likely they never seen that video but instead though "hey our David Tennant Doctor Who pony should have a tie, because David Tennant always wore one as the Doctor!" Thus *poof* one of the animators decide to have some fun. be happy they get to be that openly creative.

At what point, though, did the Dr. Whooves reference reach the artists? It's been a joke in the fandom for a while, but for how long has it been a joke to the animators? That was my point.

[Whitehawke]

At what point, though, did the Dr. Whooves reference reach the artists? It's been a joke in the fandom for a while, but for how long has it been a joke to the animators? That was my point.

They apparently call him Dr.Whooves themselves, much like how they do with Derpy. I don't have the source for that statement, but I remember it from at least several months ago.

[Hippo]

They apparently call him Dr.Whooves themselves, much like how they do with Derpy. I don't have the source for that statement, but I remember it from at least several months ago.

Well, Saturday's episode was animated "several months ago." I know that the animators are seeing some fan stuff and that they use fan names for background characters for reference. But since Dr. Whooves has been a common background character with two different voices (one in Call of the Cutie, and on in Sonic Rainboom) I hadn't seen the character as one that the show makers take seriously. His reference in Saturday's episode seemed to be the first one where he was hoof picked with a special accessory and to turn an hourglass, no less.

[accountdeleted]

When I think cider, I think the alcoholic stuff. Wikipedia:

"

Cider or cyder (/ˈsaɪdər/ sy-dər) is a fermented alcoholic beverage made from apple juice. Cider varies in alcohol content from 2% abv to 8.5% abv or more in traditional English ciders. In some regions, such as Germany and America, cider may be termed "apple wine".^[1] In current usage of the term in the United States and Canada, the term "hard cider" is used for the alcoholic beverage discussed in this article, while the term "cider" usually refers to a non-alcoholic apple juice beverage.

"

I guess it depends upon where you grew up.

Anywho, Loved the episode. Crying dashie at the end broke my heart.

I kinda understand where ponies who say that AJ was irresponsible, but vaguely disagree. Apple Bloom was the biggest yes-man. Granny Smith (why do I keep forgetting to capitalize these ponies last names?) was a Neigh-sayer, until Flim (or is it Flam?) called her a Scootaloo. I was expecting them to cut to the CMC at that point. AJ was the only one who was even vaguely sceptical the entire time.

I'm probably letting my preconceived notions select evidence though...

I agree with others who have pointed out the absurdity of the situation: Why did the family not increase the price?

As to Rosewind's challenge: I would argue that the population of the fandom is great enough that there would be bronies with basic-ly every (reasonable) thought relating to MLP. 'Tis not a very good point for conversation, however. I personally think there may be some truth in the statement. Somepony may be attracted to the innocnce of the show, I like the lack of cynicism. Bleah... I dunno, I will leave that sort of disscussion to Weesh.