King Sombra (aka Lord Donut Steel) [spoilers]

[Erlenmeyer]

So I've noticed not a lot of people like King Sombra. And for good reason too. His character was not developed AT ALL. He said very few lines and most of them not very intimidating. As a matter of fact he doesn't act nor look particularly intimidating. Many have likened him to a bad OC. However, I think that all of this was intentional. I have two possible explanations as to why King Sombra was so "terrible" in this episode.

1. He is nothing more than a plot device. As you guys might have noticed, these the two episodes were Twilight centric episodes. She had to pass a test and there was a lot of subplot about preparing for something big that may happen later in the series. So perhaps King Sombra wasn't meant to be a characterized villain like Discord or Chrysalis was. Perhaps he was just meant to be an obstacle for Twilight to overcome to further her development. Dark magic could play a pivotal role later in the series and they may have needed him to introduce it, as well.
   
2. He is going to play a larger role throughout and/or later in the season. Perhaps the writers want him to show up again as a villain in the later episodes or perhaps he will be showing up as a main antagonist throughout the series. When he was defeated, his horn did remain intact. So he could regenerate himself from that horn. If he is going to come back, it would be another reason why they basically introduced dark magic as canon. Perhaps he will try to lure Twilight into becoming evil like him (a la Star Wars) or perhaps his dark powers will be utilized by somepony else. I find this doubtful looking at the synopses for the later episodes.
   

Basically, I find it hard to believe that the writers would do so well on the other villains and somehow drop in skill when writing Sombra unless he was written that way for a specific reason. So what are your thoughts and opinions?

[Bellosh]

Basically, I find it hard to believe that the writers would do so well on the other villains and somehow drop in skill when writing Sombra unless he was written that way for a specific reason. So what are your thoughts and opinions?

I don't think the writers did all that terrible with Sombra, considering that he's essentially Sauron of LOTR-fame in a unicorn's body. If J.R.R. Tolkien got away with using an undeveloped villain as a plot device, why can't DHX?

Anyway, I don't expect Sombra will come back anytime soon. Aside from maybe Discord, I bet the writers will stick with conjuring up new villains as their stories require.

[korok132]

Hm. I think him sticking around through the season would be an interesting departure from the prior two, although for better or worse it's hard to say.

I think #1 and Bellosh are right though. Nothing really more than a plot device to be overcome to develop a character, in this case Twilight.

Although him actually showing up again isn't completely out of the question, they would have to pull something big off to make that work.

[starswirlthebearded]

I don't think the writers did all that terrible with Sombra, considering that he's essentially Sauron of LOTR-fame in a unicorn's body. If J.R.R. Tolkien got away with using an undeveloped villain as a plot device, why can't DHX?

Anyway, I don't expect Sombra will come back anytime soon. Aside from maybe Discord, I bet the writers will stick with conjuring up new villains as their stories require.

Did you just compare Tolkien to DHX (Granted its really Meghan McCarthy)??? That is horrible. Tolkien was a master wordsmith. There is no compare. That is why he was able to get away with it...

[Bellosh]

Did you just compare Tolkien to DHX (Granted its really Meghan McCarthy)??? That is horrible. Tolkien was a master wordsmith. There is no compare. That is why he was able to get away with it...

I love Tolkien's books too, but even you have to admit that LOTR gave little development (if any) to Sauron. Heck, I don't think the Dark Lord had any dialogue at all over the course of three books. Of course, whether that was a good thing or not is up to the preferences of readers.

But enough on Sauron. I would be curious to see if the writers bother to do anything more with Sombra, but I doubt they'll revisit him unless he suddenly becomes a fan favorite like Discord.

[Rabukurafuto]

Basically, I find it hard to believe that the writers would do so well on the other villains and somehow drop in skill when writing Sombra unless he was written that way for a specific reason. So what are your thoughts and opinions?

I have the impression that the writers wanted to try a villain that wasn't grand and hammy like Nightmare, Discord, and Chrysalis. The traps he had set up tells me that Sombra was a very cunning, organized type, which leads me to like him quite a bit. He reminds me of the Lich from Adventure Time, being a powerful villain of few words, a lot of savvy, and very little to go by in personality. Yet it seems like the Lich was immediately popular with fans while Sombra isn't, though that might be tied into their appearances. Sombra is a murky, armored Unicorn. The Lich is a horned rotting human (?) corpse in a cloak with unpleasantly exposed gums and teeth.

[korok132]

I would be curious to see if the writers bother to do anything more with Sombra, but I doubt they'll revisit him unless he suddenly becomes a fan favorite like Discord.

Like I said, him popping up isn't out of the question, but it'd have to be planned. And honestly, with the way the episodes ended, there's NO WAY they're NOT going to revisit him at some point in Season 3.

Also, popularity has nothing with reoccurrence. Discord never came back, and I'd say he's pretty friggen popular.

(Also, I've never read the actual LOTR books, so any argument on that I would have is inherently invalid. :!: )

[Rabukurafuto]

Also, popularity has nothing with reoccurrence. Discord never came back, and I'd say he's pretty friggen popular.

Reportedly, John de Lancie claimed to have done more recording for the program, which if true must mean Discord is coming back in some manner.

[korok132]

Reportedly, John de Lancie claimed to have done more recording for the program, which if true must mean Discord is coming back in some manner.

I recall someone saying that somewhere else, and I recall the argument for that being, basically, "He's a voice actor. He can do other voices besides Discord." Kinda like how the voices for Dash and AJ are the same VA. Same with Fluttershy and Pinkie Pie, if I remember right. de Lancie isn't stuck with just doing the voice of Discord, that's just been his only roll so far.

But, and this is a long shot, there is a chance Discord might have some dialogue in a flash back or something. Maybe to explain something about King Sombra or some other character in history.

And quick side note, anyone else notice that just about everything important has happened 1000 years ago? Luna being banished, Dissy being stoned, Sombra being shadowed...

[Rabukurafuto]

I recall someone saying that somewhere else, and I recall the argument for that being, basically, "He's a voice actor. He can do other voices besides Discord." Kinda like how the voices for Dash and AJ are the same VA. Same with Fluttershy and Pinkie Pie, if I remember right. de Lancie isn't stuck with just doing the voice of Discord, that's just been his only roll so far.

In other words, if da Lancie is still working with the MLP team, he's probably going to be voicing a different character.

That's certainly true, although looking at his animation roles de Lancie tends to stay with a single character. Still, I'm not even sure if it's true that he recorded more.

[Sparkleheart]

I kinda got the sense there was a lot of stuff that got cut from the episode for time or for being too scary for young girls. So I'm thinking they had a lot more planned for him, but it just ended up on the cutting room floor.

I'm also thinking we're just gonna be relying on the fandom to fill in his personality and history and everything. Kinda like Luna.

[QuickLime]

I'v seen people post pictures of him and in the comments people complain about it being 'Another uncreative Oc" before being shocked to learn that he's actually canon XD

[Lerian]

Maybe after world destroying perma-night (NMM), world altering chaos (Discord) and civilisation destroying emotion eating Hive minds (Chrysalis & changelings), simple greed is too petty a motivation for a villain to have? (For some)

Maybe as has been said, the idea of slavery is too 'real' and therefore scary for the target audience?

Also, play the scenes with the slave ponies and the marching orcs from LOTR films and listen, shout out? Hint at Sauron likeness?

[Bellosh]

Maybe after world destroying perma-night (NMM), world altering chaos (Discord) and civilisation destroying emotion eating Hive minds (Chrysalis & changelings), simple greed is too petty a motivation for a villain to have? (For some)

Simple greed usually isn't capable of destroying Equestria as we know it, no?

[Lerian]

Simple greed usually isn't capable of destroying Equestria as we know it, no?

To me it seems a secondary effect rather than active aggression.

To clarify NMM is seeking revenge against or worship from the ponies, she is directly attacking them and bringing about their demise through eternal night. It has to involve them.

(Muahaha, I'ma kill all the ponies)

Discord is seeking to bring chaos to the world and discord to the ponies, it has to involve them.

(Muahaha, I'ma torture all the ponies)

Chrysalis and hive are seeking a food source that consists of the ponies, it has to involve them.

(Muahaha, I'ma eat all the ponies)

Sombra is gathering as much crystal as possible with a slave workforce. He is using his own population and while the effects are felt across Equestria it is not his active intent. He is gathering crystal and would do so if it affected Equestria quickly, slowly or didn't affect Equestria at all.

I'm not denying he is evil, enslaving a population and not caring what you do to the surrounding world and population are certainly not good acts but the evil is not as apparent, 'in-your-face' if you like, as the previous three antagonists who were directly attacking.

[SteelEagle]

My niece was scared far more by Sombra than the others, who didn't impart a single trace of fear or scariness on her. The image of ponies in chains was, to her, terrifying.

[elsporko]

Sombra worked for what he was needed. They could have added an elaborate back story and dialogue and what not, and that would have meant taking time away from the plot and Twilight's journey which was more important. He was a destructive force of nature. We get some impressions of what he was like before he was defeated. Any more back story can be accomplished either in another episode or other medium. Its not like there aren't many other villains in medium that are very similar

[kunio18]

I think King Sombra is a pretty cool bad guy. he enslaves pony's and doesn't afraid of anything.

[Tenkan]

Some ponies just want to watch Equestria burn.

Villains are villains. If they want to delve into how he became like this, that's fine by me, but I don't feel like it's always necessary.

I'd say he might be one of my favorites, too, since I was honestly a little freaked out by the guy, unlike Discord and Nightmare Moon.

[SonicRainboomGirl]

I was actually pretty annoyed by this new villain. The previous MLP villains have been so developed and had quite a bit of depth to them. King Sombra was evil for the sake of being evil.

Lets look at previous MLP villains for a moment:

• Chrysalis didn't really believe in the power of love, and took advantage of a situation. She's clever, arrogant, adored, and respected. She enjoys power.
  
• Gilda was jealous that Rainbow Dash had brand new friends, and especially annoyed that these new friends weren't "cool". She spent her time trying to convince Dash of this, but in the end threw a fit and left town.
  
• Flim and Flam were in it for the bits. They crafted an incredible commercial sale that would have fooled all of Ponyville if Applejack hadn't been so high on intuition.
  

You see where I'm going with this. Sombra was a Deus ex Machina plot device, and I find it quite frustrating. Don't get me wrong, the episode was BRILLIANT. The animation was flawless, the crystal ponies were a beautiful and adequate use of transparency, the story was quite creative and revealed a lot more about our main character. Sombra was boring.

[Volt]

Some ponies just want to watch Equestria burn.

Villains are villains. If they want to delve into how he became like this, that's fine by me, but I don't feel like it's always necessary.

My niece was scared far more by Sombra than the others, who didn't impart a single trace of fear or scariness on her. The image of ponies in chains was, to her, terrifying.

That, and that. We need to remember the show is directed at any audience you'd pick randomly from world's population. I can't see how introducing slavery, strict will of destruction, tortures and all these kind of stuff is directed at children. This villain is a complete mistake to me in terms of show age categories. Along with the way he finished, which was also quite controversial. That's why I cannot accept Sombra, Some Bro, Sombrero as a villain worthy of MLP.

Due to various sources proving my words and beliefs were wrong, I feel obliged to withdraw from my opinion.

[SteelEagle]

I was saying that to her, he was a much better villain. She found Discord silly, didn't care whether he was defeated or not, NMN left zero impression, she felt bad for Chrysalis. He was the only one who she actually said was glad had been beaten.

[SonicRainboomGirl]

I was saying that to her, he was a much better villain. She found Discord silly, didn't care whether he was defeated or not, NMN left zero impression, she felt bad for Chrysalis. He was the only one who she actually said was glad had been beaten.

My cousin, who is six, thought that Sombra was silly and laughed every time he came on screen. She usually strongly dislikes or is scared of the villain, but she thought Sombra looked silly and wasn't scary. It was kind of odd to say the least...

[Erlenmeyer]

I noticed that some posts basically went along the lines of "Not all villains need to be developed or have a back story." I kind of agree with that, but I still prefer it if they had given him a personality of some sort, at least. The fact that they didn't makes me believe that he wasn't meant to have a personality or any other characteristics other than being the antagonist, or they gave him those but cut it out because it wasn't necessary or approved (they were correct to do this).

[NoGiantRobots1983]

I was actually pretty annoyed by this new villain. The previous MLP villains have been so developed and had quite a bit of depth to them. King Sombra was evil for the sake of being evil.

Lets look at previous MLP villains for a moment:

• Chrysalis didn't really believe in the power of love, and took advantage of a situation. She's clever, arrogant, adored, and respected. She enjoys power.
  
• Gilda was jealous that Rainbow Dash had brand new friends, and especially annoyed that these new friends weren't "cool". She spent her time trying to convince Dash of this, but in the end threw a fit and left town.
  
• Flim and Flam were in it for the bits. They crafted an incredible commercial sale that would have fooled all of Ponyville if Applejack hadn't been so high on intuition.
  

You see where I'm going with this. Sombra was a Deus ex Machina plot device, and I find it quite frustrating. Don't get me wrong, the episode was BRILLIANT. The animation was flawless, the crystal ponies were a beautiful and adequate use of transparency, the story was quite creative and revealed a lot more about our main character. Sombra was boring.

I gotta be honest... I can't see calling Gilda or the Flim-Flam's "villains." They were closer to antagonists than anything (a villain is evil, an antagonist just opposes the protagonist but may not necessarily be a bad person). Also, the term "deus ex machina" refers to when things just HAPPEN to work in the hero's favour and resolve all the conflicts without much effort. There's no way a villain can be one.

Personally, I liked Sombra. I think people are over-focused on "development." The guy proved his chops. He kept attacking the crystal empire for DAYS STRAIGHT, leading to Cadence being all sleep-deprived, and his evil was still clearly felt (the way the ponies had mental trauma any time they tried to remember things... I'm not sure whether that was some magical mind-block, or if they were subconsciously repressing the memory because it hurt that much, but either way it was effective). As for motivation... why are greed and power not motive enough? That's what powers most real people, after all. Sombra is a reflection of what could happen if the wrong people get into power. What every country in the world is capable of having happen to them if they don't keep a close eye on their leaders.

To me, Sombra worked. I could understand what he was about, and I could feel the effect he was having. As opposed to Discord, who was just a glorified comedian who seemed like he was in the wrong show altogether.